Unpack the Baggage In Your Marriage: How To Let It Go | Ep. 558

[00:00:00] < Intro >

Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host, Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship. Today we are wrapping up our topic of Unpacking the Baggage in Your Marriage. 

In so many marriages, the things that we haven't dealt with will keep us from enjoying the joy and freedom that our marriage was meant for. So we're dealing with those things now. To get them out of the way and help you live freer, lighter, and with more joy in your marriage. So, Dr. Kim, as we're starting to end this series on baggage, will you briefly recap some of the types of baggage we've talked about?

Dr. Kim: Sure, we've talked about things that come from our family of origin, from our childhood. Sometimes we minimize the things that happened when we were young because we were young. But those things can last a lifetime and, certainly, they can draw into your marriage and what you experience in your family of origin. We've talked about finances. Coming into the marriage after not handling finances well or having been hurt by someone with finances, and then you are really cautious.

Relationships, of course, past relationships, maybe it was a divorce. Maybe it was someone cheated on you, or you cheated on somebody, or you've been mistreated in a relationship or marriage. You've got all those trust issues that you can bring in. And then just emotional, sometimes, it's our guilt, sometimes it's our grit, sometimes it's fear, I've got some people I've worked with a lot that don't want to experience pain again. 

And, so, it's hard to overcome that baggage. To begin to trust and try to restore relationship or be in a relationship. Self-criticism, PTSD trauma, there are all kinds of things that can go into emotional baggage.

Lindsay: Yes, for sure, and that's quite a list there. I mean, I feel like we've said this before, but with all the things we've talked about, there's something for everyone there. It's going to be hard to make it through an entire lifetime without something.

Dr. Kim: I agree, and because we maybe, sometimes, look at these extreme cases, when we hear about someone's baggage. But we all have some level of baggage, and depending on where we are in life and who the people we are in life with. It depends on how it affects us and sometimes it's, probably, minimal and other times it can be really severe. But if we don't have some kind of baggage, maybe, we've lived in the cave our whole life and then we'd, probably, have baggage from that.

Lindsay: Sure, yes, it'd be awkward to come out of the cave if that's what you're used to, for sure.

Dr. Kim: Yes. 

Lindsay: That's good, and I want to refer back to something you said when we kicked off this series, Dr. Kim, which was that "If you have this baggage that doesn't define you, Jesus defines you and what He can do for you defines you." 

So if you find yourself anywhere on that list, or you're ringing any bells right now, that's what exactly what we're dealing with today. Because we're not saying, "Well, you got the baggage, sorry." We're saying, "Here's what we're going to tell you to do to start dealing with it." And, so, that was a great encouragement you gave us. 

Dr. Kim: Yes, it is, and to know that God always has an answer for us. There's always a way out, and there's a lot of comfort and peace that comes with that, and hope.

Lindsay: Yes, totally, but I do also want to give the encouragement that there's a lot of hope. But it also does take work because you have to do things a little bit differently, to get into a different situation than what you're used to. 

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, yes, sometimes we want, we wish it would just come, or Jesus would just help us, and all of that stuff's gone. But there's a purpose in us going through things, and sometimes as we go through it, like you said, it is hard. But when you get over the other side of it, you look back and you can realize, "Okay, God really did teach me some things through this. I have grown through this." And even the point of being thankful for that because of who you are after you've come through that, and the strength that gives you.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, that's really good. So one thing that, I think, can be surprising about dealing with marriage issues is it's easy to think of like, "Hey, we're going on this quest together. We're going to deal with our language and fight our dragons, and stuff like that." But it really is the small moments. It's the little quick reactions, it's the habits. 

And, so, there was a Facebook Live, recently, you did with Chris and Jamie Bailey from Expedition Marriage, where they talked about when you get triggered by something your spouse has done, and how when in those moments you react so quickly and, maybe, intensely. It's really not that interaction that brought all that up, it's something underlying. So will you explain that concept of emotional rationalization and how that works?

Dr. Kim: Yes, I think, just relationship triggers or events can cause these emotional responses to the reactions, and then it impacts you, your spouse, those kinds of things. They can be small things to big conflicts depending on the person, the relationship, those kinds of things. So there are things like the pain of not being heard, the pain of being betrayed, lied to, criticized. Those are the things that become sensitivities that we bring into our current relationships. Because of the things that happened in the past. 

And, so, we come real in tune to those than others and usually, it takes a lot, sometimes, depending on the severity to connect it with this original betrayal and then cause our action in the future. So we react the way we felt back here or experienced it back here, and we see it affecting us now, in this situation.

So something that can be just as simple, maybe, it's a misunderstanding, can trigger a big overreaction because of everything that goes into that, the moments behind that. And, so, your spouse is looking at you like, "Where is this coming from? Yes, we did have a problem, but you're really reacting over." So that can escalate. And, so, then, maybe, how does your spouse respond to that? And it just escalates at that point. 

So that's what Jamie and Chris were talking about, of just how those things from the past affect us. And just working with people, even when you're aware of it, sometimes, it's hard to work through that. Just because it involves risking again, being vulnerable again, things like that. 

Lindsay: Yes, that's a great point. And another piece of it, one thing that's really hard for me is that it's such a habit. All these things happen in your mind so quickly because it's going back to this initial feeling. This impulse you have of, "I'm not safe. I'm not being respected. I'm not being understood." Whatever it is. 

For me, a lot of times, it's "I'm not being heard." That's something that really bothers me, and the response comes so quickly that it's hard to stop it enough to say, "Wait a minute, that's not really what's going on here. It's just my response." So if we're not sure what's underneath, or if it's just really a habit, how can we start to deal with it? 

Where would we start?

Dr. Kim: Yes, I think, you're right, sometimes, like with anger, we don't really realize we have a choice. I mean, we'll make a choice to be angry. But those things come so quickly we don't really notice them or take them. I think being aware of it is important, just being aware of it. When you've experienced this trigger when it does happen, if you can just stop long enough to think, "What am I thinking?"

"What am I feeling?"

Just to up for yourself because, sometimes, we have some of those feelings and we almost judge ourselves. So what is that? And, so, you want to become more of a clarity of "What's happening in my mind."

What's happening in my body?"

Because a lot of times there'll be a physical response to that, depending on what happened to you. I've had people tell me they even have fainted because of something that happened, that took them way back to a trigger that was very painful for them. 

So just trying to get in touch with it. Because, sometimes, it's not real evident to you. You know you're, maybe, overreacting at what's going on with you and your spouse. And you may be thinking, "Well, maybe, I'm just tired or whatever." But it really could be linked to something from the past. 

Learning how to back off from a situation so it doesn't escalate, maybe, when you get triggered take a break. So if you're talking to your spouse, your spouse says something, that'd be a great place to take a time out. Where you could think, "Okay, they weren't being mean. Their tone of voice was matching up with their body language and stuff. Why did I feel that way?"

And, so, in that timeout, you think about that and pray about it. You know, "Is there something here, God, that needs to be revealed? And if there is reveal it to me, and if you just choose to heal that, please heal that."

Then to be honest with your spouse about it. Communicate, "Hey, man, did you see how I reacted to that?"

Or "I reacted."

Or "I held back, but inside this is what was going on." And, so, then, they come alongside you. So all they may do is, and it's a lot, to pray for you or, maybe, you just need them to be there and listen while you talk through things or, maybe, they come up with something or say, "I remember when this happened, do you think that has anything to do with this?" So you begin to involve your spouse, so you're working together to solve this issue. 

And, then, obviously, if you feel like you're stuck and "Man, this is happening." And I've had some people that a trigger will happen and then it hadn't happened, maybe, before in a long time, but then it begins to happen, often, so trying to figure that out. So if you're having trouble managing those or you're trying to figure out, "Okay, what is causing them." Counseling, it'd be a great place. To find a Christian counselor that's going to help you identify those things. And, then, not only help you identify them, give you a plan to "How do we work through these?" 

So that this relationship that you're in now is really healthy and you have the one that really cares for you and loves you. How do you break that so that that doesn't continue to affect this relationship over here? So it can be everything that God intends it to be. 

And, so, it's all of those, I think, really help. It just takes time, usually. I mean, God could heal it, like I said, but, sometimes, it is working through that because we don't really know where the root is, originally, in that. And, so, you begin to work through those emotions, seek the support when you get it. Having the support of going through it with your spouse. Helping them understand why you're reacting like you are, even though, you may not know exactly other than, "I know I'm overreacting in this." 

And then finding a good Christian counselor that can help walk you through that. And whether you go together or by yourself, leave that up to the counselor. The counselor may think it's important for your spouse to be there for some sessions to hear some things. To know some ways that they can help you, so that, that's a big step. But it can be a really important and beneficial step because I think anytime we address an issue and follow through with it, things are going to get better, eventually.

Lindsay: Yes, that's really good, eventually, yes. There's a lot there, I want to highlight a couple of things you said because there was so much actionable content in that. And one thing you said was talking about how when the moment of triggering happens, usually, there's something that you feel in your body. That's something that you and Dr. Flanagan talked a lot about where you talked about recognizing those things, and, I think, that's a great thing. Can you describe some of the ways people might feel that escalation and realize that something bigger is going on?

Dr. Kim: Okay, go to anger. I mean, a lot of times we go to anger when there really is something else there because anger's safest. We feel like we're pretty more in control when we're angry. And, so, sometimes, in counseling, we'll say, "What's behind the anger?" Because a lot of these triggers happen very quickly and we don't really realize it. 

And, so, all of a sudden, we're reacting. So, but I see people that get that they get pain in their chest, they may get short of breath. I mean, you can get some of the panic anxiety symptoms that go along with it, just depending if it's been a trauma in your past that was really significant. 

Maybe it was sexual abuse, something like that, there can be some very strong emotions that can come along with that and it's being aware of when those come. And, sometimes, that's a key that something's going on more than what's just happening between you and your spouse. Because if you're talking about where you're going to dinner or something, and your spouse happened to mention a place where trauma happened for you in the past. Well, we're talking about where we want to go to dinner and you just faint it on me. 

So being aware of those things and that there are different ways, I think, it is being aware of your body. Mine always is in my stomach area, I can just feel it, it tightens. Oh, my gosh, it just grabs me there, and I've had people describe a bit in different ways. I had one guy that said he starts getting a feeling in the back of his neck. He said it begins to get hot feeling. 

And, so, being aware of your body is important. God gave us a lot of signals that happen in our body. It's not just feeling that because that's who you are, God made you that way. And when something goes on we need to look at it and say, "Okay, God, what are you trying to tell me here?"

"What do you want to do in my life right now?"

"What do I need to do to allow you to do that?"

Lindsay: That's so good. I feel like those are so good because those, for me, it's usually tightness in my chest. I start to feel this tightness and then my shoulders get tight and everything gets really tense in my body, and then it's almost perpetuating more of the feeling. Because when you feel the emotion and then the body feeling plays along, it's escalating on its own, even without the more external stimuli. 

So I know that it's really good to view that as a tool or a signal instead of, like you said, "It's just how I am." No, that's a piece of information that can help you. Because recognizing that before something comes out of your mouth will actually help you stop the habit of responding, which will help everything.

Dr. Kim: Yes, and, I think, when we can become aware of that, then you can say, "Oh, gosh, I need a time out right now." Obviously that doesn't mean it's going to go away by the timeout. But it may help you compose yourself, pray about it, and then you, maybe, come back to your spouse and say, "I want to talk about what went on with me there." And begin, again, that process of working on it together with your spouse. Your spouse can pray with you, pray for you, listen to those things.

Lindsay: Yes, totally, and it does take time because when you're agitated, you can't really think clearly. So to be able to say, "I need a minute." I had to do this a lot with my kids when they were a little smaller. There was just this common parenting trigger, that I bet a lot of people will relate to, which is you're trying to get out the door, so it's already stressful. 

You got little people everywhere and they just won't put their shoes on, they just won't do it. Or they just will, suddenly, need, is they remember, they have to go to the bathroom or they lost their water bottle, everything happens at this moment. You're already stressed because you're running behind. And, so, that would be a really easy time for me to snap at them. And I realized, finally, that really what I was feeling was I felt unheard. I felt disrespected because I was disregarded when I would say things like, "Put your shoes on."

"Grab your water bottle." And repeatedly this wouldn't happen. And, so, I would get tense and get tenser because if I'm helping the little one put their shoes on, I can't also keep talking to the big one about it. So if they don't listen the first time and they do something random at that moment, it kind of throws off everything and creates more tension. What I would go to in that moment is, "Oh, my gosh, I'm a terrible mom. Why would I snap at my sweet little kids about this, they're just kids?" 

But really what's happening is I felt disrespected and disregarded 10 minutes before, and I just pushed through because we got to get out the door. There wasn't time to deal with it. Where really if I would start to catch it sooner and put myself in time out for a minute. I would just, literally, take a deep breath, walk in the other room, separate myself. And once I realized that there was something deeper, I could start to deal with it before it hit rather than snapping, feeling guilty, trying harder, and just adding more pressure.

Dr. Kim: Yes, that's so good. That's such a good example, and we can all re relate to that, in one way or the other, of those times. And the fact that you're able to realize, "Okay, I've just been stuffing this for a while and now I'm about to go over the edge with it." But, yes, I think, it's really good. 

A lady told me, one time, I probably won't get it exactly right. But she's got four kids who was in the car with them and it had been one of those days, something. So she pulls over the car and she says, "Kids, don't worry, I'll be back in a minute." So she just got out of the car, sat on the hood for about five minutes, and got back in. But she said, "It kept me from screaming, and yelling at them, and saying things I didn't want to say." 

And I thought, "Well, that, probably, was a really good solution for you at that time."

Lindsay: Yes, Oh it's so funny but it's so effective.

Dr. Kim: Yes, it is. And, sometimes, I don't know why because I talk about it all the time. We talk about it as a tool to use in marriage and conflict in times like that. But, then, sometimes, I don't take the time out when I need to take the time out, so I get it. We know that tool is there, we know it works, we know it makes a difference. I think, it's just making sure we do that when we need to. 

Lindsay: Yes. Well, and we had to work through, in my marriage, I'm the one who always wants a little more time to process. Brian is just so quick, he can think of things no matter how much conflict there is, he's ready. He can still think clearly, I can't. 

And, so, we had to unpack the fact that I would say, "I need a timeout." And he thought, "Oh, she's trying to control me. She wants to stop me from talking." Which I do want a break from his talking, but I'm asking for timeout because I need it. So I'm saying, "I am putting myself in timeout. I'm taking a timeout. It's not just to control you, but it's because I'm not going to respond well if we keep going." And, so, when we see it as the personal agency instead of the control, that helps to neutralize the inter-spouse tension that comes with it, sometimes.

Dr. Kim: Yes, that's really good. Because that's not uncommon, Lindsay, I hear that from so many couples and I don't think it's male/female, I've heard it go both ways. It's just a trait that one of us has and the other doesn't, and it seems like most couples fall into that. 

I'm sure there's exceptions, but I just hear that so much when we're talking about resolving conflict in counseling. And once you understand what your spouse needs or they may need something different, and you know they're going to come back and talk about it after they've had that time out, then you get to the point where you're saying, "Okay, I can wait a while. If that's going to help her or him and that's going to help us resolve the issue we're going through, yes, go take your time out."

Lindsay: Yes, and it's going to end better for everyone, probably. 

Dr. Kim: Yes.

[00:20:05] < Music >

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So we've brought this new cheat sheet to you to help you achieve a healthier and a more fulfilling sexual relationship, in your marriage. Head over to today's show notes to find the giving link for this resource. It's yours for a donation of any amount to the Ministry of Awesome Marriage.

[00:20:51] < Music >

Lindsay: We've talked about a lot of ways to start to stop our triggers, when we feel them with our spouse. And, so, moving on from those triggering moments just to talk about the baggage of all sorts. Practically speaking, how can we start to unpack that, whether personally or within the marriage. Aside from these triggering moments, what are some starting places we could start with?

Dr. Kim: Well, I think, the first step in AA, everything, is admit you've got a problem. So it's just acknowledging that baggage is there. Just don't keep stuffing it down, or covering it up, or hiding it. That there is baggage and it needs to be unpacked. And it could be, like we've talked, anything from the past hurts to unresolved conflicts, maybe, in your marriage, unmet expectations, or even going back to family boards and stuff that we talked about. 

So acknowledging that is important because, at least, that is your first step onto unpacking. Doing the things that need to happen and, then, communicating. Part of that is really a key part of unpacking the baggage in your marriage. Have this open, honest, conversation with your spouse about the issues that you see that are reflecting in the relationship.

And then listen to each other's perspective and work toward finding solutions together. One of the best gifts you can give your marriage is to learn to resolve conflict or differences together. That puts you on a whole new level in your marriage. 

So it's worth working through to get to the point where you, and really it's just listening and listening with empathy, and really trying not just to let the other person talk. But "Okay, I do want to understand what you're saying. I want to see how that fits where I am." What that helps me understand the solution that maybe will work for both of us, so you've that communication. 

Then, like we said, counseling. If the baggage is really heavy, if you guys keep getting stuck or every time you're trying to unpack the baggage you get in a fight. Try going to a Christian counselor that can provide this safe environment for you, that can be supportive of both of you. That can help you really explore what's going on, your feelings, patterns that you've gotten into because we all get into those patterns. 

Then help you get some strategies, some tools, to move forward. And finding a Christian counselor that not only will do all those things but will pray with and for you, and that you know is praying for your marriage and maybe gives you some specifics that you guys can pray for together or separately to help work through these. Because when you're dealing with that baggage, it affects both of you. 

And, so, it's important for both of you to realize we're both a part of the healing process in this.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm.

Dr. Kim: And then forgiveness, I mean, you just can't have a marriage without forgiveness. I just can't imagine, if Nancy couldn't forgive me of things we, probably, wouldn't have made it a month. I mean, because we're going to make up, we're going to mess up. So that whole part of forgiveness is a big part of unpacking your baggage. Because that allows you to let go of those past hurts or resentments, things that were in the past and have a new beginning. 

I talk about that a lot with a couple, "Let's do a start over. We know it happened in the past, we've forgiven, we've gone through that process. Now let's create something new or let God create something new." And then depending on the deal, though, I think it's always important when you talk about forgiveness to say it can take time. 

I mean, God wants us to forgive but the way we're wired, sometimes, it's just making that choice, "I am going to forgive, but I need your help God, in that process of forgiving." So depending on the situation, it may take some time before you really feel like you're there. 

But as long as you don't get stuck, and as long as you're praying about it, and as long as you are letting God move you forward, then, I think you're fine. But it's going to take effort. It's going to take commitment, but it's going to be worth it. And you've got to forgive, you've got to figure out how to forgive if you're going to stay in a marriage. 

Even a marriage where there's been infidelity, and even in that situation, maybe, the marriage does end into divorce, you still got to forgive as much for you as anything. Because as long as you don't forgive, I feel, most of the time we're still giving that person power in our lives. Because we're letting them take up space in our emotions, our feelings, our thoughts. And, so, you still give them power. 

So forgiving, reconciling, in your marriage, moving forward, is such an important part. And then one of the changes that need to be made because sometimes we get in those patterns. And, so, one, we want to change those patterns. And, two, how do we prevent these things from happening again? How do we, "Okay, we got in this thing, we created these problems. 

How do we keep this from happening?" Maybe it's new boundaries, maybe it's new communication skills, maybe it's making lifestyle changes. Whatever it is, those are really important.

Lindsay: Mm, that's really good. Yes, I think, that's a great point to bring about forgiveness. Because, sometimes, we think that the person has to apologize in order for us to forgive them, and that's just not true. And, I think, that's probably the root of a lot of baggage we carry, whether we know it or not. 

Because there's a lot of people in our lives, who've been there at some point who are never going to apologize. They might not even still be living and they could still have that much sway over us because we have not forgiven, and then continue the process of forgiving. I think that's one of the hardest things is it's really not one and done. Like you said, the way we're wired we still have to continue to make that choice and we really need God's help with that.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: So, Dr. Kim, we've talked about some practical tools like the timeout. But are there any other practical first steps to breaking habits of how we react to our spouse?

Dr. Kim: Obviously, our thought life, probably, can play a significant thing in how we deal with these hurts or the baggage. If we continue to have negative thoughts, we just go over these negative emotions. We ruminate over all this stuff and we get stuck in that, whether it's pain. And then positive thoughts, on the other hand, can help us reframe the experience and move forward. 

And I think that's such an important part because if you're talking about things that have happened in this relationship or even in the past, I guess, you've got to be able to, certainly, reframe your spouse and not put that baggage on them. Or if you're going through forgiveness and healing that, that takes place, too. 

So when we go back to those negative thoughts about those past things that have happened. Those, again, trigger emotions; whether it's anger, or sadness, or anxiety, or whatever it is. And, then, once those are triggered, that makes it a little harder to go past those, work through those, and move on. So a lot of times our thoughts reflect how we view ourselves, our spouse, maybe, even the world around us. 

And, so, all of a sudden, our whole beliefs are self-directed behavior that just continues and where positive thoughts will help us reframe the experience. And really finding meaning in our pain, maybe, that sounds hard, but anything we go through, I think God brings something good out of it. So letting God work within the midst of that, and bringing healing in that, and what lessons could we learn from it. And, so, that's what you want to do, letting go of the past, this emotional baggage, to move forward. 

And, so, you've got a new sense of purpose, you've got a new sense of life because you've been able to reframe those things, change those thoughts, get rid of the negative thoughts, and move forward. And we've, probably, all experienced times of negative thoughts and we know what it does to us. I mean, if I've got negative thought, usually, it's something that's going to make me upset or angry. 

And, so, that doesn't do me a lot of good to just keep thinking about that, and getting worked up, and get angry. And, then, maybe I displace it, maybe, it doesn't have anything to do with Nancy, then I displace it on her. And, so, it's just important to learn to, "Okay, I've got those negative thoughts for a reason. What's the reason? What do I need to do? And, then, going forward, how do I continue to have positive thoughts? Reframe that person, reframe that situation in a way that brings healing and doesn't keep me stuck in these negative thoughts."

Lindsay: Mm, gosh, that's so good. I think, too, that's what the Scripture is referring to when it talks about "Being transformed by the renewing of your mind." And there are a lot of Scriptures that talk about changing our mindset, taking our thoughts captive. So can you give us any examples, just to put you on the spot of how you could reframe. Because I love what you're talking about there, but let's make this more practical.

Dr. Kim: Well, let's talk about it in a married situation. Say your spouse has been angry. And, so, you've got this pattern of anger-fight, anger-fight, and your spouse says, "I've got a problem here, and I'm going to counseling, and I'm going to work this out." Maybe get an anger management group and they're working on it, but they're still not perfect. But you continue to think this person's going to be angry. So then you continue to react as if that's still your reality when, actually, things have changed. 

And, so, the reframing part would be saying, "Yes, my spouse was an angry person. Yes, my spouse said and did some things that were horrible in our marriage, but my spouse has gotten help. I haven't seen him angry in six months. I've seen times they could be angry and they're not. So I'm going to reframe my spouse as someone I trust. I trust that that person has worked on their anger. I trust that God is working in their lives and they're in control of that. 

So when they do get angry, it doesn't mean they're not get angry, that they come and talk to me about it. That we sit down together and talk about it. That it's not a blow up. It's not throwing things. It's not those things."

And, so, it's just that whole reframing and allows you, then, once you reframe that you don't have to be so defensive. You don't have to protect yourself and you even can begin to build trust again, and embrace what God's done in your spouse's life. Does that make sense?

Lindsay: That's a great example, yes, totally. That's really good and I love that, too, when you talked about reframing. Because I think that our minds, what we think of is what we see. So if you think of and expect your spouse to be angry, you're going to notice it more. 

But if you expect your spouse not to be perfect, but to be working on it, then, you're going to notice that more, and that's a huge game changer, in marriage.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, you've just changed the filter that you see your spouse through. You changed your lens in your eyes, however you want to put it, but yes, you're looking at this person and, then, you can begin to re-look at this person as the gift God gave you in marriage. This is someone I did commit to live my life with. This is someone we're going to make something beautiful out of this now, those kind of things can begin to happen.

Lindsay: Oh, that's so good. That's really good. So going off of that, what are some of the changes that you see in couples when they are able to let go of the past?

Dr. Kim: It's really fun to see trust build, where there hasn't been trust or there's been very little trust. And the more that trust builds, then, you begin to see more connection in that couple because the walls are coming down. You see more intimacy, not just sexual, but in just the closeness in their conversations, in the way they treat each other, how they're kind to each other, the non-physical touch those kind of things begin to happen. 

And, so, yes, it's really fun. I've told so many couples, over the years, that I wish I'd taken a picture of them the first day they came in and the last day they came in. They don't even look the same because they're different people. There's joy in their faces, in their hearts than when they came in. Sometimes, I think, they're going to break the ends of the couch off because they're trying to get as far apart of each other as they can. And this last time they're sitting so close together, I said, "We could put three other couples on the couch with you today." 

So those are fun things to see, and it tells me that God does work in those situations. That God does have an answer that we have not had on our own, and just taking steps, letting Him involved, and doing the things that we've talked about, today. Just don't give up, those things can be overcome. And if there hasn't been a physical, an abusive situation, then hang in there and work through it with each other.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, that's so encouraging. I wish you had those pictures, that would be so cool to see.

Dr. Kim: I know, I keep saying that, then I just don't. I guess because at the first week, they're just barely there, anyway, and if I start taking their picture, then, he goes, "He posted these on Facebook, well, I'll take them-

Lindsay: Yes, it'd be a great testimonial. 

Dr. Kim: Maybe I just need a hidden camera or something. 

Lindsay: Not weird at all.

Dr. Kim: Exactly, and go "Don't be like this couple."

Lindsay: We get to hear a lot of emails from couples, too. We get to hear testimonials but we also get questions of people who are in a bad situation. So if we could just get the before and after for the same couples because we get them all scattered, that'd be cool.

Dr. Kim: Yes, it is, and I love it when, especially with Awesome Marriage because we answer every email, we respond to people, we do things, send them things, do things to help them. It's just so cool when we do get something back from someone and let us know that that helped, and that made a difference, and thanking us for praying for it and things like that. So, yes, that's cool, too.

Lindsay: Yes, the evidence is definitely there, that's awesome. Well, so as we're wrapping up this conversation, what final piece of advice would you give to our listeners, today?

Dr. Kim: I think this is probably a good topic that, maybe, you just sit down with God sometime this week, just 15 minutes even, and just say, "God, is there any baggage that I'm carrying that I'm not aware of? Is there anything that you would surface for me to work on, that I know you're going to work on with me?" And see what God does and I promise you, and that's a little risky, I get to do that because if there is something He's going to bring it up. But He is also going to have an answer for you and your life is going to be better because of that. 

And it's giving God, just inviting Him into you and say, "What do you see there, God?" And it's a search-my-heart-know-me prayer, and letting God reveal something, and bring it to light, and get you on a healing path, and that's pretty cool. And when you think about it, that this guy that created this universe that we're living in cares enough to do that for you, that's pretty amazing, too.

Lindsay: Yes, absolutely, that's really encouraging to end on. And that theme was a lot of the conversation with John and Stasi Eldredge, too, about just that personal healing of Jesus to our own hearts. And if you haven't listened to those episodes, in this series, go back and listen to all those, they're just the preceding episodes, and there was so much good stuff there. And really, exactly, what Dr. Kim just said, just take that time with God and let him Heal you because he wants to.

Dr. Kim: Yes, we had some great people on, this month with us, Kelly Flanagan and John and Stasi Eldredge. Interviewing them was so much fun, they're great people and the things that they said. Yes, I agree with the Lindsay, if you haven't listened to them, go back and listen to them because they're amazing.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, it's really good stuff. So this series has been full of wisdom and lots of insight and practical help from our guests and from Dr. Kim. And, so, we were praying that this series has been helpful for you and your marriage. And, of course, you can always reach out to us, like Dr. Kim just said, we do answer all of our emails. We get a lot of them, so if you send one, we will just add that to the pile and we'll get back to you. Because we love helping people, and we get to hear from couples in all different stages, and seasons, and situations, and we've seen God do amazing things there.

So later we have an awesome bonus episode coming up with Eric and Erika Rivera of the Brook Church. They go in depth talking about Eric's new book, Unexpected Jesus, and how God's kindness met them in their hardest seasons. Here's a little snippet of what you'll hear in that episode.

Eric: And then there are times, to be very truthful, we're saying, "God, we're trying to be faithful to you, we didn't need this in our life right now. This can be a real challenge for us, do you really want us to be challenged like this? Lord, I know you're good and faithful, but this doesn't quite line up as easily as other things seem to line up."

So I want to leave you with a reminder that God is for you, and for your healing, and restoration, and that's what He loves to do. So go ahead and get in touch with us if there's anything you need. Thanks for listening, today. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage, today.

[00:38:10] < Outro >

Announcer:Thanks for listening to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the Ministry of Awesome Marriage and produced by Lindsay Few, with music by Noah Copeland. If you haven't signed up for Dr. Kim's Weekly Marriage Multiplier Email, we encourage you to do so today. Marriage is hard and life is busy, which is why we need real, practical, reminders of ways to build an awesome marriage. Sign up today to get this quick and compelling email from Dr. Kim each week. If you enjoyed this content, share the podcast with a friend.