Thinking About Having Kids? | Ep. 525

[00:00:00] < Intro >

Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.

[00:00:26] < Music >

Dr. Kim: I have a question for you, has The Awesome Marriage podcast, helped your marriage? If you've benefited from the content of The Awesome Marriage podcast now is the very best time to rate and review the show. Because, for a limited time, you could win a $250 Amazon gift card when you tell us about it.

The giveaway is simple. Just leave a rating and written review wherever you listen to podcasts. Then screenshot it and submit it at awesomemarriage.com for your chance to win. Sending in your screenshot will automatically enter you into the giveaway. 

It helps so much when you rate and review the show. Because reviews, well, they boost the show's visibility in the podcast apps, which helps more listeners find us. 

Marriage is hard and so many marriages need the encouragement of biblical principles and time-tested wisdom. To enter the giveaway, visit awesomemarriage.com/podcast-giveaway, or use the link in our show notes. We will choose four winners completely at random. We appreciate your support of The Awesome Marriage podcast.

Lindsay: Children are a gift from God and they are a blessing. But how do you know if you're ready to be a parent? If you're considering having kids but you're just not sure that you're ready yet. There are some things to consider first, and we're going to talk about those today. 

Thanks for joining us today on The Awesome Marriage podcast. We're going to dive right into the topic. So, Dr. Kim, is there a way to know if you are ready to have kids?

Dr. Kim: I think so. And, I think, it's a question most couples deal with at some point. And, I think, some people, depending on their age, might feel more pressure. Like "We're kind of running out of time." And, so, I think, prayer is a place to go, to start with, and just ask God, "Reveal to us. Are we ready? Are there things that You want us to do, or improve on, or learn before we have kids." And let God guide you in that. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Kim: I think you can talk to other people who have kids and ask their opinion. People that you trust. People that are, probably, in your church that believe what you do, and ask them about their process. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Kim: Those, especially, who've had one or two kids, I think, that's always valuable. And if you've got any struggle questions, ask them, "Did they struggle with this?"

"What was that like?"

"How did they know when they were ready?"

I think it's also important to look at your family of origins, and how you grew up, and what parenting styles were like. Because the minute the baby's born you start parenting. I mean, at that point it's more changing diapers, and feedings, and all that kind of stuff. 

But, I think, what you want to make sure is that you're on the same page with your spouse. I don't think God is going to tell one of you, "It's time to have a child." And one of you, "It's not time to have a child." And, so, if there's that difference, why is that difference? 

Is there maybe that one of them has a fear?

And, so, that's why they're saying, "No", and they haven't really worked on that yet. So maybe talking to someone, counseling can help you discover that. But you definitely want to get the point where you feel like you're on the same page with it. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.  

Dr. Kim: And if you are, and you feel a peace, I think, it's time, and some people go through that process. Some people just get pregnant, and they never think, "Oh, are we ready for kids?"

"Well, we're pregnant."

"So, I guess, we better be ready."

Lindsay: Yep. 

Dr. Kim: But if you're in that situation where you guys are really trying to think it through. I think, those steps would be really helpful.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm. I think that's really good, too, and I really love that you mentioned if the couple's not on the same page. Because I do think that can happen really easily is that you're not on the same page. And I think, too, there could be fear on either side. 

Fear of saying, "Yes." Or fear of saying "No." A lot of times, in the process, it's easy to think, it's up to us; that we have go ahead and make this happen. If you're trying, or you have to race the clock, or whatever it is, or there can be fear to take this step to try to have kids.

Dr. Kim: Yes. And, I think, too, deciding how urgent is it for you? I mean, do you, really, want to start doing all the stuff that might help? Like counting days, and temperatures, and all that kind of stuff. Or do you just want to flow with it? And that can vary from couple to couple.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's true. So to get into what it might look like if a couple does decide that they're ready, and they're able to have a baby, or they bring a baby into the family. How do you see marriages changing after a couple has their first baby?

Dr. Kim: That's interesting, one of our team members, Lara, is pregnant and getting ready to have a baby.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: She was over at our home and we were doing some video stuff, the other day. And we just began to talk about that, and she said that she just realized, she and her husband have been married about a year and a half, close to two years, and they have a lot of freedom. They have flexibility. They can go to dinner on the spur of a moment. They can decide, "We are going to do this for a moment." And she was saying that's all going to change.

Lindsay: Yes.

Dr. Kim: And, so, in some ways it's like the freedom you enjoy does change. Because, all of a sudden, you've got a third person that it's not like your pet that you can set them aside for a while. You don't have a babysitter, or things like that, and your flexibility changes. 

So, I think, those are things, I think, going into, to being aware of. That they're going to have some changes there. Because I've had some couples that, really, didn't talk about that. And, maybe, one person was aware of it and one wasn't. And, so, one stays home more with the child and the other is out doing the things they did before. Well, that's not usually going to work well. 

Lindsay: Yes.

Dr. Kim: You've got to both do this together and know that this is going to change your lives in some ways, for both of you. But this is not a bad thing, it's just the reality of it. I think the fact of being tired is, well, most of us don't do well when we're tired. And, so, I think, I don't know any couple that's had a baby that they weren't exhausted. Because it's night feedings, it's crying, it's trying to figure out what's wrong or "How do we get this kid to sleep?"

And, so, you're tired and, I think, you have to be careful with that. That you don't take that tiredness out on your spouse, that frustration sometimes you feel. I think your focus shifts. It's like, "Okay, it's been us, but now we've got to include this baby." And the time, and the intention that goes to that. 

So, I think, all those things, and then the other thing is you realize, maybe, marriage has been pretty easy the first year and a half. You're together all the time. You've got a lot of freedom with that.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: That, "If our marriage is going to grow through this, we've got to be intentional about our marriage." And, I think, some people go awhile and don't realize that. And, maybe, they get six months in or something to having a child and realize, "We love our baby. We love having a child, but we're not as close as we used to be because you haven't taken those times to connect." So those are the kind of things that came to my mind. That we, I think, experience and that I see couples experience now.

Lindsay: Yes, it's a lot to consider, especially, when you haven't been in those shoes before. It's hard to know exactly-

Dr. Kim: Right, you don't get a practice kid. I mean, God, doesn't just [Inaudible 00:07:39] "Here's your practice kid, then we'll do the real thing." No, that doesn't happen that way. 

Lindsay: Yes, and you can always babysit a little bit, but that's not really-

Dr. Kim: No, because you get to go home. 

Lindsay: Exactly, yes, and, I mean, they're all different. Every single child is so different. You can't predict anything about how they're going to respond or behave from the gate immediately.

Dr. Kim: And, so, you've seen that with your four kids the difference in each one of them.

Lindsay: Oh, my gosh, yes, it's amazing, to me, how quickly you can see the differences in personality. I mean, you're talking about being flexible. So our first born, Stella, we called her a party baby because she loved to be around people. She loved being out. It wasn't like we were out all night or something, but it was like if we could go to dinner with friends and she would just go, "Oh, I loved this." As a baby she would just light up and see everyone. And it was almost like a novelty it was so fun. 

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: But then she hit a point where she wanted to be in her bed at bedtime. She wasn't as flexible anymore, and that was fine, that was healthy. But we had to go, "Okay, now we've lost some of that flexibility and how are we going to deal with this?"

But on the other hand, we had friends who had dogs. They had gotten dogs as newlyweds and we realized eventually the child will, probably, be out of diapers, but the dog will never walk itself. So you're going to go through these different seasons with the child, where they gain more flexibility or grow out of phases. That puppy always needs you to come home and let it out.

Dr. Kim: That's right. 

Lindsay: So that was funny to watch.

Dr. Kim: I think that's a really good point that it is seasons and sometimes some seasons are easier than others. The changing diaper part of it wasn't my favorite, but it didn't last forever.

Lindsay: It did not. 

Dr. Kim: And I was more motivated to help our kids get potty-trained because of that.

Lindsay: Yes, and that was a funny thing to me, the surprise of when we had been able to take her out and she would sleep in her little baby seat or whatever. I was like, "Oh, this is nice." And then when that wasn't like that anymore, we had to change some things, but it was really good for her. 

And, so, we got used to it and then it became, "Oh, well, it's predictable. We know when she's going to go to sleep so we can plan around that. We could put her to bed and then have a friend over, whatever kind of thing like that." So you just, kind of, go with the season.

Dr. Kim: I think that's a good point that you guys made, you didn't ask her to change because she didn't understand that. Anyway, you and Brian figured out, "Okay, we know her schedule now and, so, we can plan around that." And, I think, that's important instead of trying to make a kid, and I've seen some couples do that, fit their schedule. Well, no wonder your baby is cranky all the time.

Lindsay: Right, and some kids go with the flow a lot more than others. It's an interesting thing.

Dr. Kim: Yes, just go with the personality of your child.

Lindsay: Yes, and it takes learning, it takes some time, so it's a process. So, I'm curious, how did this play out for you and Nancy when you first became parents? What were some of the big shifts and changes you dealt with?

Dr. Kim: Well, I think, when we'd been married five years and we really had enjoyed that time and we were, really, ready for a child to be in our family. And, I think, we just had come to that point, we'd done all the stuff we wanted to do as singles. 

We were the first ones in our groups to get married, both sides, and it was just time. And, so, it was something we looked forward to. It was something that we were on the same page with. I can remember when Grant was just a baby, we'd lay him on a blanket on the living room floor and just stare at him. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: Every little thing, move, made we'd go, "Oh, that is so cool."

Lindsay: Yes.

Dr. Kim: So we were totally enamored with him. Giving up the freedom was not that hard for us. 

Because, I think, we were ready to enter that next step of being parents, and knowing that would look different by looking at our families, and other people who did have kids, and seeing how their life changed. We had a couple of friends that had a child. And, so, we'd call them and say, "Hey, can we go to dinner tonight?" And they'd go, "Well, no, remember we have a child."

"Oh, yes."

And, so, we knew some of those things were going to happen. But we did what you said y'all did with Stella, we took Grant everywhere. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: If we met friends for lunch at a hamburger place, Grant and his little baby thing sat on the table and entertained everybody. He loved people just like you said she did, or he'd sleep, and he was great. We took him everywhere. 

We didn't grow up in COVID, we didn't have stuff like that. We didn't have anything that restricted us from thinking, "Oh, is this a good idea or not?" 

And part of it we were just stupid. And, so, we just took him everywhere we went. And then, I think, what we didn't do well at the first few weeks, and probably that was pretty normal, we didn't have date nights. But everything was good and we were enjoying it. And then one of us said, "Hey, we need to get back to our date nights." So it was, probably, maybe, three months into it that we started getting a sitter. 

I mean, at that time, every Saturday night we had a sitter lined up. And, I think, that helped us a lot because the weeks when Nancy was tired, or I was tired, or we didn't get as much connection time, we both knew that Saturday night we were going to have that time together. And, so, it wasn't like we were just putting this on forever, it was just a few days or whatever. If we hadn't connected well on the week we knew we had the date nights. I think that was a huge deal for us about helping keeping our marriage a priority during that time.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's a good one. That's good too.

Dr. Kim: What about you guys?

Lindsay: Well, can I ask a follow-up question first? So you said you had date nights within the first couple of months?

Dr. Kim: About the third month. 

Lindsay: Okay.

Dr. Kim: Now, my parents were in town, we had other friends. Nancy found a retired nurse, she was a pediatric nurse, so she said, "We're going to use her for a while." Which was great, but this time, she was a great lady, she came in her uniform. Which made Nancy feel so... 

I mean, and this is when they wore the whites. The real, kind of, uniform type thing not the things, kind of, the more comfortable today, which was great. And, so, the bad thing was she lived about 30 minutes away. But that's who Nancy wanted, and, so, I would drive. The hard thing was when we would have a date and maybe we'd had dinner, and we were feeling pretty romantic, and I'd run the sitter home. 

Well, 30 minutes and Nancy was asleep by the time when I got home too, there was a downside to that too. But, I think, she found somebody and after that we began to use others, and not we didn't keep my parents. My parents were very good about keeping the kids, but they were really active too. They were busy. And, so, we knew if we wanted to do every Saturday night, it would be better if we had someone that we paid, and we knew was going to be consistent in being there.

Lindsay: Yes, that's good.

Dr. Kim: Yes, that's kind of how that played out. And then after that, I think, as we became more comfortable and realized he wasn't breakable. That we had some great teenage girls in our church that later on babysat our kids and some things like that. People that we really trusted and, so, that worked out well too.

Lindsay: That's great. That's such a good, important, encouragement that you can find somebody you trust to take care of your baby, and it will be fine, and you'll be better for it. Because you get that connection time, like you were saying.

Dr. Kim: And, I think, as a husband, I had to realize that Nancy looked at it different than I did. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: And it was hard for her to leave him that first time, even for a couple hours. And, so, instead of getting upset, I had to learn, "I get this and it's going to get better as time goes on." And it did. 

And then, I think, Grant was probably six-months-old when we left him overnight for the first time with my parents and we went from Oklahoma City to Dallas for a football game and spent the night, and it was hard, and for some ways, for Nancy. But we came back he was still there. My parents had done a good job, they hadn't killed him, and, so, that was a big step too.

Lindsay: Yes, that's good. 

Dr. Kim: But, I think, husbands need to understand that most of the time our wives are, probably, going to look at it a little bit different than we do. I was always protective, but I, also, just thought, "This is something we need to do."

Lindsay: Yes, that's really would be helpful to get on the same page about. Because I think it does. I think it, probably, does look different from the wife's perspective. 

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: Yes, I think, when we first had started having kids, we were in the camp that we didn't ever plan to. We got pregnant, it was not really something intentional on our part. And, so, we were married about 11 months before we were pregnant and then it was pretty surprising for us, but also exciting. 

And, so, we had really struggled, we didn't have a great free time together. The way we were both working part-time, multiple jobs. We were still in school, and, so, we didn't have regular date night. We didn't have a lot of time when we saw each other. 

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: It's amazing we got pregnant because our shifts were opposite, and we were so busy just all the time making things happen.

Dr. Kim: Sure.

Lindsay: Brian was starting this college ministry, it was exciting. We were working, we were finishing school, so we had a lot going on. So, for us, having a baby forced us to say, "Okay, we have got to take a look at how this is going. Because we want to be able to be a family that has dinner together, that we do things together." And, so, we started to slow down some, a little bit, and just start to settle in a little bit more.

Whereas before we were thinking, "Okay, we're just going through this for this time period until we get out of school or until we get a more established situation." We were okay with being a little bit all over the place. 

Dr. Kim: Yes. 

Lindsay: Because we were young, we were making things happen, and then we were able to wrangle with and wrestle with. Like, "What do we want to establish for our family now? We have to grow up because we're having a child."

Dr. Kim: Right. How old were you guys when Stella was born?

Lindsay: 23.

Dr. Kim: Okay, so we were 25, 23, okay. Nancy was 23, about the same time. 

Lindsay: Yes.

Dr. Kim: And we were young, exactly.

Lindsay: Yes, it was good, so it was a fun transition. But, maybe, that's part of why we were, kind of, flexible with our parenting is because we were just trying to figure out what it was like to be normal and hang out at normal times, and it was fun. 

Dr. Kim: I love you said that, "It was fun." Because, I think, we would say that about almost every stage with kids. That doesn't mean it was always easy, but it was fun. And, I think, it's your perspective and how you looked at it. And, I think, what helped us is somebody had said to us, "Just value every day with that child." You hear the thing that, "They grew up quickly." And ours did and our grandkids are growing up. 

And, so, I think, just take that perspective of just cherishing every day. Even when it's dirty diapers and all that kind of stuff that you don't like that well. I don't know anybody ever liked dirty diapers. But realize that's a stage, and you're not going to be changing them forever, and then you go into another stage. 

And, so, I think we did a pretty good job of trying to embrace and enjoy each stage. Some were more fun than others were, but they were all valuable.

Lindsay: Yes, I think so too. And I think it's hard because, I remember, just thinking back to those first days. It was surprising, to us, that sometimes you're trying to learn how to take care of this baby and you don't really know. And you're reading books, and the nurses said some things at the doctor's office or whatever you've got, you're just grabbing onto. 

But there were times where she would just cry and cry and we could not figure out how to stop. And that was such a surprise that as a parent you're like in this transitional phase, like you were saying, exhausted, so tired. Try and have grace with each other and not be snappy. 

But there were times when she would just cry and cry, and we didn't figure out how to stop it or maybe she was just figuring things out. Just in some of those really early days and we were not cherishing those moments. 

But those moments, it was okay, she made it through. She wasn't suffering, she just had something bothering her that she couldn't tell us about. We couldn't understand what she was trying to communicate. And, so there were times we just had to say, "Okay, the most important thing right now is that we just don't lose it." Because you get so frustrated. 

And, so, there were times we were like, "Well, maybe, we'll just put her in the little bouncy seat and let her bounce." So you're just trying stuff, but, I think, it was an important lesson of just sometimes it's not going to go great. It's not going to be a great moment all the time, but that's just a moment.

Dr. Kim: No, right. The first three months of Grant's life he was colicky and we knew he was colicky, and we had a few things that the doctor told us to do. But the only thing that really helped him is to get him in the car and riding him around.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm.

Dr. Kim: So there were times, at two o'clock in the morning, after he had cried for an hour that we'd go, "We got to get in the car and we got to drive." And we'd get in the car and he'd go to sleep. And then once he got to sleep like that we were able to get him in and get him in his bed. 

But you do, you learn out what works. The bouncing seat was always a good thing because sometimes that seems to distract him or the swing. The car was the magic thing with him and it was for lot of his life, he was still when he was older. We'd be going somewhere and he'd go to sleep in the car, a 10-years-old, just like that. 

Lindsay: Yes, oh, that’s funny. 

Dr. Kim: But you do, and it's kind of fun when you look back that you figured it out together. 

Lindsay: Yes. 

Dr. Kim: And it was tiring, and when you spend an hour driving around at three in the morning is not a lot of fun. But it was something that we just felt like we need to do.

Lindsay: Yes, and it's like if you find those tricks that work, you're going to try those tricks at that point because you need some help.

Dr. Kim: Yes, it's better than listening to him cry for another hour. 

Lindsay: Yes, for sure.

Dr. Kim: Exactly.

Lindsay: Yes, so, I think, it's easy in retrospect to say, "Oh, it was so sweet, we cherished it all. But we didn't. We didn't love every moment. But overall it was really great.

Dr. Kim: It is.

Lindsay: So there's some things you just can't prepare for or control with your kids.

Dr. Kim: No.

[00:21:53] < Music >

Dr. Kim: I have a question for you: has The Awesome Marriage podcast helped your marriage? If you've benefited from the content of The Awesome Marriage podcast, now is the very best time to rate and review the show. Because for a limited time you could win a $250 Amazon gift card, when you tell us about it. 

The giveaway is simple, just leave a rating and written review wherever you listen to podcasts. Then screenshot it and submit it at awesomemarriage.com for your chance to win. 

Sending in your screenshot will automatically enter you into the giveaway. It helps so much when you rate and review the show. Because reviews, well, they boost the show's visibility in the podcast apps, which helps more listeners find us. 

Marriage is hard and so many marriages need the encouragement of biblical principles and time-tested wisdom. To enter the giveaway, visit awesomemarriage.com/podcast-giveaway, or use the link in our show notes. 

We will choose four winners completely at random. We appreciate your support of The Awesome Marriage podcast.

[00:22:59] < Music>

Lindsay: So in the counseling room, are there certain surprises that couples tend to have not thought about or prepared for before they had kids?

Dr. Kim: Well, I think, some of the things that we're talking about. Some of the things you don't really think about. What do you do when the baby cries and they can't talk? I mean, those kind of things. I think I've had a couple of people say to me that they just didn't, really, realize how much they could love a baby. 

Lindsay: Mh-hmm.

Dr. Kim: That something that could do absolutely nothing for themselves. But they said that love there and how God continues to give you love, and, I think, you find that as you have more than one child. 

You think, "Okay, well, this child has been so special for whatever we've had before, we'll have the second one." And just to realize that, okay, God loves all of us the same. And, I think, He will give us the ability to do that with our kids, and He does.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: It's not like, "Okay, first one got 100% love. This one gets 75%. Third one, probably, gets 50%." No, you are able to love all of them 100% and like you said, they all have different personalities, so I think that.

I think one of the things a lot of couples that can surprise them, sometimes, are the financial costs. I mean, expense and then like what people have gone through some of this year, formula shortage.

Lindsay: Oh, yes.

Dr. Kim: And people that were dependent on formula. I've had one couple I worked with, and their baby she wasn't able to breastfeed. That didn't work with the baby. They tried three or four formulas that didn't work. Finds one that work, and all of a sudden you can't find it. 

So she had family members all over this part of the United States looking for that formula and shipping it to them when they found it.

Lindsay: Wow.

Dr. Kim: And it, probably, cost more than it used to. So some of those things you don't think about and what they'll do. And then, I think, what hit me was the responsibility of a baby. I don't think I thought about it that much of it. It was kind of like you said with you and Brian it was like, "I got to grow up. There are certain things that I just don't need to be a part of my life anymore. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: Nancy and I had some friends we'd go out with and go dancing with. And, I think, we did that once after Grant was born and that next morning, when he woke up, we thought, "Huh, we're not doing that anymore. This is not good, we have to stop doing that. He doesn't understand we were out too late last night." He didn't get that at all. 

Those are the main things that I think come to my mind, of just things that I've seen couples and they're all normal stuff. But I just don't think you'd think of everything. Just like when you go into marriage, you're in love and you know you want to spend the rest of your life with this person. 

But you didn't know that, that person put the toilet paper on the wrong way on the roller. And now that they left dirty towels, there's things you learn as you go along. And, so, I think, it's just being open to that and being prepared as much as you can. But there's still going to be some surprises.

Lindsay: Yes, I think, that's good, to go ahead and bust that myth, you can't prepare for everything. There will be surprises. 

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. 

Lindsay: And that's just life.

Dr. Kim: Yes, God will equip you to do that, absolutely.

Lindsay: So what are some of the things couples find hard to navigate after baby's born?

Dr. Kim: I think for some, and I see this with some guys, is accepting that responsibility of what it is to be a father and a husband, and to give up some of the things. You can't go hang out with your buddies just like you did before. There are still things that you just can't do. And then, I think, the other is how do we continue to put our marriage first? 

How do we keep it first? 

How do we put it first? 

And realizing that soon enough before you've gotten too far apart. Because I think what happens, sometimes, is that you continue to do that, and then you become a very child-centered marriage. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: And the farther you get in that, I think, it just takes that much more effort to come back and put your marriage where God wants it and that's first, and knowing that it's okay to put your marriage first. 

Certainly when a child's crying you've got to take care of the child, and there's needs a child has you have to take care of. But in the big picture, your marriage is first, and your kids need to see that. You want them to have great marriages. 

And, so, if you have a child-centered home. My opinion is the kids don't see a picture of marriage that you would want them to see, or God would want them to see. Does that make sense?

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, oh, yes, totally. And then, yes, I think, that's really good, too, because they do not take no for an answer. When they're born they're going to cry if they need something, and they will keep going. And, so, your spouse will, hopefully, not be doing that. If they need something, hopefully, they will not continue to say, "Mom, mom." Like a childhood would, or a toddler.

But that doesn't mean they don't need things too, so, I think, it's important. And I say this from a mom perspective of like it's really hard to ignore toddlers who are asking for things, or children who are asking for things, or babies. Because they make it very obvious what they're asking for.

Spouses, sometimes, we're not great at that. Sometimes we're not good at saying, "Hey, I feel like you're ignoring me. I don't feel like we're having time together. I feel like we're not as close." We're, probably, not saying those things as often or as loudly as the children are. 

Dr. Kim: Yes. 

Lindsay: So it's something to be very cognizant of and aware of, and to try to stay on the same page together. And then, I think, when your spouse does bring something to you then to take that seriously.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. I thought of one of the resources that you guys have developed, our team has developed, and that's our Weekly Marriage Checkup. I've really thought that would be a great thing to use once you have a baby. Because it helps you every week to touch base with the things that are important in your marriage, that you want to be intentional about. 

So, I think, sometimes just having something that draws to your attention, that you put in your regular schedule helps. Because weeks and months can pass and you realize, "Oh, we really haven't done anything for our marriage."

Well, if you've got something each week you're focusing on it, and you can say, "Hey, this is when we're going to have a date night."

Or, "This is when we're going to set aside time for each other."

Or, "This is when we're going to talk about our budget." Then it, really, helps you stay on track with each other. So that's a resource you can get on the awesomemarriage.com. Just click Resources, it's a weekly checkup guide. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's such a good idea. That's a great idea. I think, too, another thing that we sometimes will do, and this is just really simple. But we'll do it at dinnertime, we'll pray the Lord's Prayer and where it talks about like, "Forgive us today our sins as we forgive those who've sinned against us." 

And in that moment, if you're thinking about like, "Oh, Hun, I think I kind of brushed you off when you asked for something today." It helps keep these things between a marriage or between a family, short accounts, keep short accounts. 

So you don't have these things you hold onto. Not to say that, that solves all the problems. But it's one of those little ways you can build a small check in into your day or small touchpoint to keep those things in front of you. And I like those kind of things. 

Dr. Kim: I love that because, I think, if we don't deal with those and keep short accounts, things build. And then we add something else in, and we take it through that negative framework. Instead of, "Hey, the air's been cleared we can start over again."

I have a lot of couples I just suggest, at least once a week, sit down and say, "Hey, is there anything this week that I offended you with, or that we need to talk about?" Get it on the table, deal with it, and start off fresh again and it also gives you information. It helps me know, "Okay, I didn't realize that bothered you, Nancy. I didn't realize that, thanks for telling me that and I'm sorry I did that. And I'm going to work to not do that in the future."

So it's a way to continue to grow your marriage. There's some accountability to grow your marriage and keep short accounts, I think that's really helpful.

Lindsay: That's good, yes, that's true. But with the temptation to have a child-centered marriage. You're going to treat a toddler like a toddler or a baby like a baby, and as they get older you should be letting them do more things on their own. 

They should be able to be more independent and they should not continue to beg, and demand, and ask. So you'll move out of those seasons, but you'll also, I think, sometimes the temptation of having a child-centered marriage, you want to keep them in that. Because it's just a pattern or a habit. And, maybe, I would find myself doing things for the kids that they could easily do for themselves just out of habit. 

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: And, I think, that's a component to the child-centered thing.

Dr. Kim: So you're saying let them grow up?

Lindsay: Let them grow up, yes.

Dr. Kim: Let them begin the things that are appropriate for the age they are and let them do that, and I think it's great counsel.

Lindsay: Let them do that. 

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: Even, push back on like, "Hey, that's a whining sound you're making. You're growing out of that stage, it's time to stop using that voice."

Dr. Kim: Yes, and I think a lot of that happens. I see that in kids as they're growing from being a kid to, maybe, a preteen and you see them want to be older. And then also you see them acting like, maybe, they did even younger than their age. And, I think, that's a struggle that kids go through, which is pretty normal. 

And, I think, you can help in that and say, "You know, when you were seven and you acted like this, it was normal. Now that you're 11 that's not." So what would be an appropriate response to this and help teach them, and train them, and guide them.

Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And then, I think, too, as spouses that frees you up to, "You know what, we don't have to do everything for them. We can actually focus on one another because we want to still be good friends and be together, long after they've grown up."

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, they do leave. 

Lindsay: Yes, they do. Most of them do, from what I hear, I don't know yet.

Dr. Kim: Yes, I promise they do.

Lindsay: So what are some of the practical ways you dealt with the challenges of becoming parents for you and Nancy?

Dr. Kim: Communication has always been important to us. And, I think, it's important to every... I need to know what she was struggling with. I need to know what she was upset with me about. 

I think we had to learn to talk about how we handled things together. We really did well when the kids were little. I think as they got a little older, is where we saw some of our parenting differences come in. Because of the family of origins and stuff because our parents did discipline differently. 

And, so, we had those things to talk through but, I think, communicating. The other thing, I think, that really helped, and I had somebody that I can't remember who had shared with me, was empathy. I needed to be able to put myself in her shoes and she needed to be able to put herself in my shoes.

I think a lot of times a husband can feel left out when a baby's born. Especially if the mom is nursing, and so, the baby has all that bonding and stuff. And, I think, some guys do better when the child is a little bit older. Where they can respond to them a little more, I've heard guys say that.

But, I think, it's being empathetic with each other. And, I think, some guys that feel shut out or maybe their sex life is less than. For a wife to realize, "Hey, this is still important to him, how do we win? And how do we make this happen, and how do we continue to nurture each other, and do the things that are important to each other?"

So, I think, good communication. Always being honest and willing to bring things up with each other, and then just being empathetic with each other. Being kind to each other. Those things make such a difference whether you have a baby or not, and, especially, when you've a child and your life is changing like it does when a baby comes. But, I think, those things are even more important.

Lindsay: I think that's really good. That's so true. What that makes me think of the empathy piece, when our kids were really little, I was always sad that they were getting older. I mean, not older, but like going from newborn, to just an infant, I loved the little stage. 

And, so, when Brian would go, "Oh, good, they're getting bigger. Now they can play and they're fun." I would go, "Oh, no, don't say that. That's not good." So we had totally different perspectives on that.

Dr. Kim: What is wrong with you?

Lindsay: Yes, and that happens a lot. But neither perspective was wrong, we just saw it differently.

Dr. Kim: No, I think, of the guy, you can't wait till your little boy is old enough that you can help him learn some things. Whether it's sports, music, whatever it is that you have, that you want to share with him, with your daughters too. 

But, I think, guys want that age to come, where they can do some things with them. And, so, I think we may rejoice more at, "Oh, they're a toddler." "Oh, they're at this age," than the mom does as you see that transition.

Lindsay: Yes, it's so true. So what do you think, as we start to wrap up. What are some of the most important steps a couple can take to think through the decision if they're ready to have kids?

Dr. Kim: I think it's always good to make a pro-con list. Write it down together. Take a yellow piece of paper, if you still have those, I keep them around all the time. Draw that line on the middle and put pros and cons, and then look at it together. 

Both of you contribute to the list and then weigh the pros against the cons, and are how big are the cons? If they're just, "Hey, I'm just a little afraid, will I be a good parent?" Well, between now and when we have the baby, we can go to a parenting class. We can talk, we can go to a mentor couple, we can do some things to get over that."

And, so, then after you go to that, to try it again, like we talked at the beginning, to be on the same page with it. I think you got to be totally honest with each other. If you have a concern you got to get it on the table, and I think the other spouse needs to give you permission to do that. You don't want your spouse to be afraid of putting this on the table or of talking about this. 

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: If that upset you, I think, you've got to be totally honest with each other. And that helps you weigh those pros and cons and come to the point of saying. Once you do that and you pray, and you feel that peace that we talked about, then, I think, you're going to be on the same page with it.

And then it's in God's hands because He already knows who your child's going to be. And He knows when that child's going to be born. And God, I think, is so gracious to us. He helps us, if we take advantage of it, to be prepared when that child comes.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, that's good. And, I think, one thing I would add to that is if your spouse does have concerns that you don't have. Like you said, to give them permission but also to not dismiss them, and not write them off and say, "Well, that's not a big deal. That will be fine."

Because you don't know, and either one of you might be right or wrong. But you won't feel very close if you just dismiss something that they're concerned about.

Dr. Kim: Yes. And, I think, maybe, that you're male/female, and this comes out a little bit if maybe what the husband and wife think are concerned about is different. So it's so important, like you said, to value that and not dismiss that. And because, "I think, that's stupid. You shouldn't be worried about that." I can't say that to Nancy. I've got to say, "let's talk about that. How do we handle it? Help me understand."

Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's good. I mean, because all these things are like, if your marriage has some pain points, they're not going to disappear when you have a child. It's just like your relational stresses didn't disappear when you got married. 

These things won't disappear when you have a child either. So you do have to deal with things and that might be a little difficult. But those differences and balances are really a strength that you can use if you work through them together. 

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. 

Lindsay: So let's push somebody over the fence, if they're not sure. I love children. I think they're great, God says they're blessing and a gift. What are some of the gifts and joys of having children?

Dr. Kim: Yes, Nancy and I totally enjoyed our kids. I think from the time when we did lay Grant on the blanket, on the floor, and just stare at him to realize, "This is a miracle."

I mean, God, the human being is just a miracle. And, I think, sometimes we're not as much aware of that until you see a baby, and you see just what God did in the mother's womb for this baby to be here. 

I think the other joy is as we watch them grow and develop, and to see, you rejoice. I still remember Grant taking his first step and it was like, "Oh, my gosh." We called everybody we knew about that. 

And, so, then you watch them develop and grow. You have fun with them. I think that's such a joy. Don't miss out on having fun with your kids. Don't wait for the next stage to have fun. 

How do I have fun with them in this stage? 

How do we do this? 

Lindsay: Yes.

Dr. Kim: I think it's fun to teach them. I think to teach them about Jesus. To teach them about the things that are important. Nancy and I, as our kids grew, we thought of other things that we wanted them to experience before they left home. 

And, so, some of it was travel. Some of the things we wanted them to read, different things like that. And then, I think, just learning how to love a child well. Because we figured out, probably, when our kids were pretty young, that we wanted them to be part of our lives as long as we live.

Lindsay: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Kim: And that at some point they were going to be adults and they, probably, were both going to be married, and they're going to have their own families. We wanted to have an adult relationship with them that they valued and we valued, it was a friendship. 

So that was always a goal out there. We got to discipline, we got to do things like that, but we don't want to do anything that would keep them from valuing the relationship with us when they walk out the door. And that really came when I was early into counseling and I had a young man that was getting ready to go into senior year, and he was looking at colleges. And I said, "Where do you want to go?"

And he said, "As far away from home as I can."

And I thought, "Wow, I don't want that." And if the kid goes away, that's fine. But I want the reason to be, "Because this school has what I want, and what I think I need, and this is why I want to go there. Not because I want to get away from you guys."

Lindsay: Yes, absolutely.

Dr. Kim: And, so, those are kind of the joys and, I think, some direction there, a lot of prayer. And then, I think, when you pray for your kids and you see God, we learned that when maybe we didn't agree on something or we were trying to figure something out. 

If we would stop and pray, there was not one time that God did not show up and give us the right direction. And sometimes we did that well and sometimes we didn't do it well. And when we didn't we'd think, "Why didn't we pray about that?" 

It's like one of those things learning that God does care, and He cares about those kids more than you do. That He does show up in those situations. And, I think, that's a joy as you go together in prayer. Pray for your kids. Pray for God's wisdom and guidance in this. And then you'll see you've got answers you didn't have without Him.

Lindsay: Yes.

Dr. Kim: And we did that all the time.

Lindsay: And that's a great way to get on the same page too, back on the same page together. Because if you're both looking at God, together, you're going in the same direction and that's helpful.

Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. 

Lindsay: Yes, so I agree. I mean, I think, each stage is just really fun. There's a lot of fun stuff. Every stage has something different. When they're little and everything's amazing, and they're in wonder of every little thing and that's just such a fun thing to experience. And then as they grow into their own person and you're like, "Man, we shape them some, but really it's God's hand at work from the very beginning."

Dr. Kim: Yes. 

Lindsay: And, so, that's just a cool thing to be part of.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, it is.

Lindsay: Well, any final piece of advice for our listeners today?

Dr. Kim: This has really been fun, and I hope we've helped some people that are kind of on that. Of "Do we or not?" And I would say go through the things we talked about. 

Pray about it. Look at your pros and cons, make sure you get on the same page, I think, that is it. And then enjoy every step of it. Enjoy the pregnancy, hopefully the pregnancy is not miserable for the wife. I've had some people it is, and some people maybe if part of it is. 

But then when that child comes, just know that God's going to equip you and if you seek Him, and put Him first, and continue to put each other next, He's going to help you be really good parents. 

Lindsay: Yes, and nobody has a perfect parent, that's not possible. The only one available is God, the rest of us we're going to mess up, it's just part of it. And, I think, what you're saying is like, if you ask Him to equip you, He will every step. Even though it won't be perfect, it will be what He has planned for you and for your child, and family. So that's such a good word.

Dr. Kim: So well said, yes.

Lindsay: Well, thank you for covering all this so well, Dr. Kim. I'm just so hopeful that this helps some couples, today, who are trying to navigate that together.

Dr. Kim: Yes, and I know there's a lot of them.

Lindsay: Yes. 

Dr. Kim: One thing we didn't really talk about, that I hear from couples and have since, probably, the pandemic started off, "Do I want to bring a child into this world?" And I think that's one of the things that you want to put on your pro-con list and talk that through. 

Because, I think, obviously, people are going to have kids. We need kids, we need young Christian kids growing up that will run this world in the future. So, how do we work past those fears? And, I think, for some people, those are very real right now.

Lindsay: I think, absolutely, so. And I don't know that there's ever been a time when that wouldn't enter into the equation somewhere. Like at all stages of the world. Now, obviously, tons of visible reasons but it's always been a broken world. So that's very real.

Dr. Kim: That's right, a consideration. 

Lindsay: Well, so for our anonymous question from a listener this week, this is kind of a fun one to go on the end of this topic. But we have an anonymous question and this week's question is, "Is it okay for a Christian couple planning on having kids, to use birth control for a little bit after marriage?"

Dr. Kim: That's a good question. And, I think, some people probably struggle with that more than others. I think there are some faiths I know that are against birth control and I respect that. And, I think, if you're in that faith that you've got to follow the beliefs that you believe. So I'll never say anything against that. 

For Nancy and I, we did not have a problem with it. I guess the way I look at it, I think, God already knows who my kids are going to be. Your children are going to be. When they'll be born, all those kinds of things. And, so, we just left that to Him. And, so, I don't think birth control is a problem.

And the interesting thing is we had a great neighbor for a few years, and they had four children when they moved in, and that was it. There were going to get only four children, she was back on birth control.

Well, they had two more kids while they lived there. And, so, it's kind of that deal, if God's got a child to give to you, you're going to get that child.

And, so, I think, for the birth control part of it, if that gives you a sense of security. If it helps know in your own mind that we want some time together before we have kids, I think it's okay. And then God's going to do what God's going to do. 

And you don't surprise Him if you say, "I'm going to go on birth control, well, God knew that and He knew that when you get off is when He planned on you having this child. And, so, I think, for our perspective, I would say, I think, it's okay.

Lindsay: Yes, well, I hope that that is a helpful answer and takes some of the pressure and stress off, and I think, gosh, what a great point to lean on. That after the whole conversation we just had, it's in God's hands the whole time, and He's the one who creates the life and sustains it from the very beginning. So that's a great place to land. 

So if you are subscribed to our One Thing email, you have the option to submit your own anonymous question for Dr. Kim, anytime, right in that email. And if you're not make sure you sign up for that today. The link to sign up for the One Thing is always in our show notes. 

So remember that you can always find us on Facebook and Instagram, and Dr. Kim is on TikTok. And, of course, we always welcome your emails at info@awesomemarriage, if you have questions, or would like prayer, or if there's anything else you need from us. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage today. 

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