The Spiritual Battle For Your Marriage | Ep. 571

[00:00:00] < Intro >

Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.

There is a real enemy in marriage and I do not mean your spouse. 1 Peter 5:8 says that, "The enemy is like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour." Christian couples can be confident that God is on our side, He's for us, and He does have the victory. So today we're going to talk about how to fight the spiritual battle for marriage. So, Dr. Kim, to start off with, do you feel that marriage, in general, is under attack and why?

Dr. Kim: I do, and, especially as Christians, I think, maybe we're even more aware of that. And you think about it because in a Christian marriage, where you're trying to follow what God wants you to do, in a marriage.

When you're putting God first, like we talk about all the time, and your spouse, and then your family next. So those things the enemy doesn't like. And if you look at it from the enemy's perspective, what better way to bring people down than by attacking marriages and the family.

I mean, that's the core of so much of what we have from the time of Adam and Eve, in the Garden of Eden, all the way through. And, so, I can't imagine what a culture without marriage would be.

Because there's so much good that comes from marriage, and we learn so much in marriage, and we fight the enemy better in marriage. And that's another thing, if he can split us apart in a marriage, he seems to be doing, if he's doing anything really well, from his perspective, right now, that's probably it.

And, so, we have to fight hard. That's why we talk so much about being intentional and about praying together, and reading the Bible together, and getting to church together. Because we can fight the battle, we can win the battle, but we’ve got to be prepared to do that. 

And, so, whether you see it, too, you see in the media, you see in the culture, marriage is not shown to be valued that much. You don't see very many shows, honestly, that the marriage is really something you think, "Well, I want that."

And, so, you get a lot of shows that have affairs in it, and you have people unhappy with their marriage, and doing certain things. So all of that stuff that the media gives us affects our culture, and then the culture where marriages change.

But you've got a lot of people not marrying right now or not choosing to marry. And you have people that live together, cohabitate, as opposed to marriage. And I think the statistics that we're finally seeing coming out of that is realizing that doesn't work well. That doesn't bode well. That the long term results of that are not healthy for most couples.

And, so, all of that goes into it. And I think of the attacks that we have, marriage is not valued, and here's an alternative that makes sense in our culture, but it's not what God's best for us. But we buy into those things and, I think, we've seen that change a lot.

We have what we call our Marriage Changers and those are couples that believe in what we do at Awesome Marriage. That give each month and they get some extra privileges, a video from Nancy and I. But I think my goal with them, and I say that every time that Nancy and I do a video for them, is that as their marriage is strengthened, that they reach out and help other marriages. Which was my big overall goal with Marriage Changers anyway.

And, so, I think, as Christians, we want to work on our marriages. We want people to look at us and say, "You guys have something different. You have something that I want or that we want in our marriage." And with all the attacks that are coming, that's one of the best attacks against it.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, I think that is so good. I love that you mentioned Marriage Changers because it's true. As our marriages are strengthened, by default, whatever is happening in our marriage is communicating something to people around us.

So, like you said, with strong marriages, then you have strong families. Because it's stability, and it's a safe place for the kids, and it's healthy for families, it's healthy for the individuals. They're able to think about others and not just be so stuck trying to work on their own problems. That they're thinking about themselves. They can actually think in a generous way, and you and Nancy do such a good job of modeling that, too.

That a lot of culture tells us marriage is boring or it ties you down, or it holds you back, but it's really fun. And I love how you guys show that with all the Instagram videos you'll give us, and stuff like that. And with the Marriage Changers, when you talk, we can just see your mutual respect for each other, how much funny you have, and that's such a light, and it's so cool.

Dr. Kim: Well, thank you. Like we've talked, we haven't been that way our whole marriage. But we've worked to get there and I want people to know that. That's why it's so sad when people give up early in their marriages because you do get to where we are, by working through hard times. And by fighting the enemy when he says, "Go find somebody else." Or other things that he tells us that are so counteractive to having a good marriage. 

And, so, I want people to see that, because what you see in the stuff we do is us. I mean, neither one of us are very good at faking things. And, so, I want people to know that that's there for everybody and more, absolutely.

Lindsay: Yes, and you would have never experienced that if you'd given up early?

Dr. Kim: Oh, no. If we would have divorced at year seven when we were looking at it. I just think of all that we would have missed out on, and that our kids would have missed out on.

Lindsay: Absolutely. And I think about that because I almost bailed after, not even the first year, just a few months in, and now we're at 20. And the enemy was telling me, "This is too hard. You can't do it, it's too hard. You must have chosen the wrong guy." And any guy would be the wrong guy, if that's how you thought about it. There's no easy road to marriage that lasts a long time.

Dr. Kim: No, and you're right, and that's a great point of how the enemy was subtle in that. And working on something that you were already thinking about in your head, "This is hard." Which it is hard. But then when he takes you from, "It's hard, I want to work through it. I want a long-lasting marriage." To "It's hard" and he wants you to get out.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, yes.

Dr. Kim: And very few people, I think, would say the divorce, the grass is really greener in the other place. And I've had people even that I've seen with good marriages, and may have been eight or nine years. That had divorced earlier, saying, "If I would have done what I'm doing now, back then, that marriage would have worked." 

Now, it didn't happen and they'd both remarried and all that stuff. But, yes, I think people see that. If you really work at it, unless there's abuse, things we talk about that are, obviously, the exceptions. God always has an answer, always.

Lindsay: Yes, and, I mean, the reality is, for me, what I was dealing with was just me. It was me that I needed to work on. Our marriage, obviously, it was new, we needed to work things out. But, for me, I was being confronted with things that nobody had ever forced me to confront before because marriage is closer than any other relationship. So it forced me to deal with myself in ways that I was really not comfortable with, but I needed to do.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: So why is marriage such a target? You alluded to this, but are there any other reasons?

Dr. Kim: The Bible talks about Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy. And I think when you really look at how he attacks a marriage, that's it. Because marriage really is a picture,

when you look in the Bible, of Christ's relationship with the church. And, so, what did Christ do? I mean, He served us and He was there for us, and I think that's a picture that marriage is supposed to have. That we serve each other, we love each other, we care for each other, we grow with each other. Because marriage is designed to grow us and to make us more like Christ. 

And, so, I think, that's a big reason it's a target for the enemy, for Christian marriage. Because marriage involves love, and Satan hates that because that's such an opposite of who he is. And, so, when we look at love, if you look at the three words in the Hebrew. Eros, being sensual love, and philia being the love of friendship, and agape unconditional love.

And in a marriage if you put all three of those together, so you've got the erotic part of it. You've got the closeness and empathy of a friendship, and you've got that unconditional love. Knowing you're not going to be perfect and they're not going to be perfect, and you come in and forgive.

Well, Satan hates all those things. Of course he is going to attack those. We all struggle at times, and probably we give him a few victories. But you just can't give him the war. You just can't let him win your marriage.

Lindsay: Yes, that's so good.

[00:09:40] < Music >

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Lindsay: Let's talk about what are some ways that a marriage might come under spiritual attack. What does that look like?

Dr. Kim: I think there are so many ways, obviously, we're all sinners, so we are not perfect. And, so, we're going to do some things that the other person may feel like that was not good or not good in our marriage relationship. And then you see couples that blame each other for things, or our selfishness comes into it. And that's one of the things that most of us fight, to some degree, all the time.

"Yes, I want my marriage to be good. Yes, I want this and that, but, oh, my gosh, I don't want to do that right now. I really just want to go up by myself, for a while." And, so, selfishness, keeping secrets from each other, anger, porn, financial issues, adultery, divorce, not praying together. Not really taking advantage of what's there.

And, so, all of those things the enemy uses to attack us and to get us off track of what God wants for us in marriage. And make us believe that what we think God wants us for marriage is unattainable "Because you fight all the time, don't you?"

"Oh, yes, he said he wasn't going to look at porn anymore, but he did."

And "She had that extra credit card I didn't know about." I mean, just all these things that the enemy just goes with, and knowing that all of those things God has an answer for. Every one of them.

Lindsay: Yes, absolutely. And then I see, too, just the negative thought pattern. I alluded to how I struggled with that a lot. But when you get really habituated into those negative thought patterns, I do think that's an area of spiritual attack. Where you're really fixated on not the things of God. You're fixated on selfish things and a self-centered way of seeing your spouse, and that's a spiritual issue, too.

Dr. Kim: Yes, just to say that, maybe, Nancy has said she was going to really work on something. And I think, "That's great. That's going to help me, it's going to help our marriage." And then a couple months later, she does the same thing again. And then the enemy tells me, "See, I told you she couldn't change. She can't change that. Why are you still hanging around here?"

Instead of me listening to the Lord and saying, "Hey, she has been working on this. She's not perfect. She's going to make a mistake, but she's going to get right back on that horse and keep going in the right direction."

And, so, the enemy can just take those things, and just reaffirm some of the things that we've thought in a negative way. And, so, just renewing our mind and focusing on the positive with our spouse, is a huge way to fight that. Ask God to help you see your spouse through His eyes.

Ask God to give you that special love for your spouse and the sexual desire only for your spouse. Which I think is so important in our culture that we pray that prayer. Because there are so many distractions, sexually, in our culture for us. So those are some of the things, I think, that come under attack, for sure.

Lindsay: That's so good. And I love that you mentioned renewing your mind, too. Because I think if you just are looking around, first of all, in our sin nature, but also in our culture, it's self-centered. I mean, humans, we just are, we're just selfish. You always say that the biggest problem marriages have ever faced is always selfishness. And, so, when we renew our mind, we put our thoughts into the way of Christ. Which is self-sacrificing and it's selfless love.

It's such a different model than what we ever see modeled in culture or would ever want to do on our own. But it's exactly what Paul describes what marriage is, in Ephesians, it's like, "Christ loved the church, He loved her and gave Himself up for her." So it's self-sacrificing.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely.

Lindsay: You won't really find that. You won't be tempted to do that, it's not easy, it's not appealing. But when we renew our minds, that's the direction the Lord will lead us.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely.

Lindsay: Well, what are some other ways that individual spouses can protect themselves spiritually?

Dr. Kim: Prayer is always the strong one and, especially, when you're coming together in prayer and praying. I pray about that myself. We pray about that together. And then being intentional about your marriage. When we get unconnected, I think, being intentional helps us stay connected. 

And, so, when we're not connected, we're much more vulnerable to so many things. Because we're not really valuing our marriage. Because it's not giving us everything that God wants us to have in our marriage relationship. 

And, so, being intentional about that, protecting your marriage. In other words, what are you letting into your marriage? Are there things that are, whether it's, maybe, people you're around, maybe it's pornography, maybe it's something like that. Maybe it's something, anything that just is attacking your marriage or is just opposed to what you think your marriage needs to be, and what God wants it to be.

And, so, being aware of that, and then doing whatever it takes to protect it, and it may mean you set a boundary with some friends. You forgive them, but then you say, "We're just not going to be with you anymore." But you may not have to say it that way, but you can figure out a way to do that.

And then making sure I’m protecting it, it has helped us. One of the best things that we've always had some really great couple of friends that were Christian. That had the same values, the same beliefs. That were trying to raise their kids the same way. That puts the same things out there for their kids.

And, so, when our kids were with them or at their house or families that we didn't worry. Because we knew that we all lined up in the same values and they weren't going to hear something there that Satan could use, basically, against that. 

And, so, that's another thing that helps us and, then, just having Christian friends to talk to. And, today, with all the attacks, we feel, sometimes, as Christians, it's really nice to be able to sit down and talk with other Christian couples about that. And what are they seeing? And what are they feeling and experiencing? And how are they handling things.

So there are a number of things that we can do, within our lives, to protect ourselves spiritually. And it's always been essential, but it's really essential now, too.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, yes, that's so good. I mean, it's having those friends, who you know are going to be moving in the same direction is invaluable. Because sometimes it feels like you look around and it's "Is anyone staying together? Is anyone still fighting for their marriage?"

And, so, to have friends that you look at and you go, "Yes". And then to know that if something is difficult right now, we can talk about it, and you've got my back, you'll encourage me in my marriage, and I would do the same for you. And to say we're all on the same path. We all understand it's hard. But we're all encouraging one another, as we go along, and that's really valuable, really helpful.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, we've seven or eight couples that we've been close to, for such a long time. That are all at or close to or celebrating their fiftieth anniversary.

Lindsay: Wow.

Dr. Kim: And, so, the fact that we would all say that that has been easier, in many ways, because we have gone through a lot of life together as couples.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, man, that's so cool.

Dr. Kim: Yes, it makes a difference.

Lindsay: It really does. That's so good. There are a couple of other ways, specifically, that I think of when I think of protection, spiritually, and one is not holding on to bitterness or grudges. Scripture tells us, "Don't let the sun go down on your anger and give the devil a foothold." And I've seen it and I've done it, too. When you're holding on to bitterness or a grudge, it is the easiest way to let darkness in.

And, so, I think a lot of us might do that without realizing, but it is not pretty. So we've talked a lot, on the podcast, in the past, about forgiveness and letting go of things. But when you do that, you really do what God told you to do.

So if you're resisting a specific command that Jesus has given, you're cutting off the closeness of relationship. Obviously, you're still saved, you're still a Christian. But you're not experiencing that closeness and intimacy with God, in the way you're meant to because you're not doing what he told you to.

Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely, I agree with that. And I think it's so easy for us to let the enemy get a foothold in those things. And, so, just being aware of that and letting go and forgiving. Forgiveness is such an important thing, and it's something we don't hear a lot in our culture. And I can't remember who said, I think it was Lewis Smedes that said, "When you forgive, you set a prisoner free and you realize it was you."

Because you can bear all kinds of grudges and bitterness at somebody, and they may not have a clue. Or even if they did, it may not bother them. And, so, it's you that's eating up, and it's you that the enemy is letting you dwell on those negative thoughts and be angry and things. So I totally agree, that's such an important one.

Lindsay: Yes, and I know, too, with being in ministry, having a husband who's a pastor. I think a lot of people have things that they feel like it's okay to be bitter about. I've seen a lot of people who are carrying things, and they just feel like it was something that was justified. They feel like their grievance is fair. And, so, they can hold on to it, whatever it was, and it's weighing them down. Whether they know it or not, they might not have any idea, but it is, it just is.

Dr. Kim: And knowing that you can forgive, and that doesn't make what they did right, or anything. It's really for you to be able to let go and then you set your boundary. It's okay to say, "Okay, I'm not going to be around you anymore. I'm not going to set myself up for this to happen anymore, but I do forgive you." And move on.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm.

Dr. Kim: That way you've dealt with it and you put it in God's hands.

Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And then I also think about in Ephesians six where Paul talks about "Putting on the full armor of God to stand against the schemes of the enemy." And if you're not familiar with that, just go read it. It's a lot to get into for this conversation.

So go read it and go seek a good commentary or a devotional about it because it's really something, it's active. It's not like you just accidentally are prepared. It's an intentional choice to set your mind on truth, and to be ready, and to have prayer, righteousness, all these things to protect you.

Dr. Kim: Yes, I agree, and it's so important and, sometimes, we, and I get it, God's going to be there for us. There are times I haven't had the armor on and God has rescued me out. But it's so much easier when I've taken the time to pray. To do the things that Paul talks about in those verses, to prepare ourselves for that. So we are stronger because we do have the Word of God. God gives us so much to fight with, and so why not take it into battle with you?

Lindsay: Oh, yes, absolutely, and one of the biggest things about that is just knowing there's the need for that. Because I think a lot of times because it's invisible, it's hard to think about the reality of the spiritual things. But, I mean, it's very clear in Scripture. And, personally, I think it's easy to see, sometimes, looking around, but there's a lot more going on than meets the eye.

Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely.

Lindsay: So what can a couple do together to protect their marriage?

Dr. Kim: I think a lot of it just goes back to how you do life together. Choosing battles well is so important. Nancy and I used to fight over the stupidest things. We can't even remember what they were. We didn't choose our battles well. It was more about marking our territory, I think, or who's going to win or lose.

And, so, choosing your battles well and then when you do need to address something, do it with kindness and love. And, so, giving grace for each other is such an important thing that we are able to realize that we are both human, and we are going to make mistakes, and being kind. I've used that word more in the last couple of years than I ever have. Because I think it's such an important thing that it's so easy for us to lose. It's easy for me to lose.

I was driving the other day, and I wasn't kind, in my thoughts, toward that person. I wasn't giving them any grace. And I thought, "Well, that's just great." But, at least, I was aware of it. But, yes, I think sometimes that kindness eludes us and I got it that day. It's like, "I don't want to be kind to that person. I'd really like to see them kind of have a flat tire right here. That'd be cool. That'd be so cool."

So praying together, reading the Bible together. The basics that we talk about all the time will help protect your marriage. Being in a small group together, attending church together. All those basic things help protect and not that one alone. When you put them all together, I mean, all those are good, but when you put them all together.

And we talk about choosing your battles well, and giving just some grace, and being kind, and praying together, going to church together, reading the Bible together, being in a small group together. Man, you talk about putting on the armor of God, and you have just added a bunch of things there that are very helpful. And will give you, over time, what you want in your marriage, for sure,

Lindsay: Yes, that's so good. Also two easy ways that we have to get into Scripture together is we have our Couples Scripture Challenge. Which is a two-week challenge we've created for couples, and we also have YouVersion Plans.

I think Dr. Kim and I, we both love writing these plans for You Version devotional plans that get people in Scripture. And it's really a humbling thing to be able to do because it's the most important thing you could do, personally, and then for your marriage. And, so, we've written, probably, about 50 plans.

Dr. Kim: Yes, it's about 50, we may be a little over that by now.

Lindsay: Yes, we might be.

Dr. Kim: But all different areas of marriage; and then even some for women, some for the wives, and some for the husbands about how to fight those battles. And it's just so fun when I go out or we're out, and somebody comes up to me and just thanks me for Awesome Marriage, or thanks me for those YouVersion plans. And I hear that a lot, "We've done all your plans." And I'm thinking, "Oh, my gosh, that's amazing." I'm not sure what to even say to that. 

Lindsay: Yes, that's so cool.

Dr. Kim: But they're being intentional about their marriage and they're seeing it make a difference. They didn't come up and say, "We've done all your plans, and, well, that was a joke." No, it had made a difference for them, and that's cool.

Lindsay: Yes, that's so good. I've written a couple that were really vulnerable for me. In the one I wrote about learning to apologize in marriage, and it was hard to share. And then I looked on and saw that, actually, people were doing it. And I was like, "Okay, use it, Jesus. Use my failure to help people."

Dr. Kim: It is, sometimes, you think, "Should I really share this?" And then you do, and it's always nice when God lets you know that it really did mean something to somebody.

Lindsay: Yes, it is so good. So what I love about the Couple's Scripture challenge we have available for a donation of any amount. The YouVersion plans are just for free. If you have a Bible app, which I hope you do, you can find them just by searching Awesome Marriage, and they're worth it.

Dr. Kim: I agree.

Lindsay: So in addition to all those ways to protect your marriage. How can we go to battle for our marriage, spiritually?

Dr. Kim: I think the whole idea of never giving up. Just that deal of taking divorce off the table and really committing to that, together, makes a difference. It's like, "Okay, now we got to figure this out because we're not walking out the door and you're not walking out the door." So just having that. I think when you take that perspective of fighting for your marriage, instead of fighting in your marriage, that makes a difference.

We talk about standing side by side with God. Putting the problem in front of you, so you're working as a team. So that's really important, learning how to fight for it.

In other words, anything comes up that you just, "Okay, how do we solve this together? How is this a win for our marriage?" Do you need to compromise? Whatever it takes to do that, that keeps you, and there's something that's really cool about solving a problem together. You feel like, "Oh, my gosh, look at what we did."

And, so, the next time the enemy tries to tell you that, "Y'all can't solve this."

You can say, "Oh, yes, we can, because we have and we've seen God help us before." And things we've talked about are about guarding your marriage. Whether it's from pornography, other people, what's out in the world, culture, what you watch, what you listen to. I'm not being legalistic about that. But if you're listening to or watching something and you see, "This isn't good for our marriage." Why continue doing that? Because there's plenty of stuff out there that you could spend your time doing, praying together.

And then that whole deal of pursuing, and just knowing together that you want to pursue your spouse every day. And when you do that because you did when you were dating or most days, or you wouldn't have gotten married and, so, that worked. And, so, sometimes, we get lazy or we think we don't have to do that anymore. But it's really fun. It's really fun to pursue and it's really fun to be pursued.

And, so, I think, that is another way that connects us. Anything that really connects us, whether prayer, time with God. Whatever that is with the two of you, does help you do battle because you are not alone. It's a picture of the cord of three strands that we talk about all the time. And it's three knit together with God, and the husband, and the wife, and how much stronger we are like that than we are alone.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, yes, that's so good. So then how can we respond, if we do feel under attack. I know there have been times in our marriage, where maybe we don't realize it, at first, but we get to a certain point and we're like, "Something is amiss here." It's not just, maybe, our communication just keeps on missing each other. We're just not getting on the same page.

And, eventually, we go, "I think there's more than meets the eye. I think this is a spiritual attack" or something to that nature. And I know others have experienced this as well, where it's just not adding up. There have been times when, through our kids really acting out in certain ways, that it's just over the top. It's more than we were prepared for. We feel like there's really more going on there. So how can we respond in those moments?

Dr. Kim: Yes, that's really good. Prayer, "Okay, God, something's wrong here. Would you reveal to us what this is? We feel like we're under attack. Are we? Where is it coming from?" Really ask God's wisdom in that. I don't know I've ever done that, that God hasn't given us insight to that. And then you decide, "Okay, how do we fight this?"

Well, obviously, continue in prayer. Obviously finding Scriptures that really will help strengthen you or fight the battle. Whether it's something that just helps you make your faith stronger or it also things that you can say, just letting the enemy know that, "You're in my business here, get away." Those kind of things.

And you mentioned the armor of God. I think when you are under attack and you both are seeking God, and you're both putting on the armor of God. Now you've got the two of you with the Word of God, and the breastplates of righteousness, and all the things that it says there and God to fight that battle with.

And, so, it gives you a confidence. It gives you a strength that God wants you to have. We don't need to back down from the enemy. Because God is greater and stronger and he may be around, but you always have the last kick in his butt. I mean, just kick him out of there. He has no business in your marriage.

And then it goes back to what I said earlier about Ephesians four is that just "Two are stronger than one." And you help each other and if one falls down, the other can help him up, and then you've got the three together. So it is standing together in the middle of the attack, with God, that makes a difference and gives you confidence that, "We can fight this battle."

Lindsay: Yes, so are there any practical ways that you and Nancy have done that in your marriage?

Dr. Kim: Yes, I mean, some of the things are just when we have not gotten along or some things that we just need to work on our marriage. And then there's other things, like we've both had times, really, tough times of depression, some things like that. And then maybe just some life situations. 

And, so, we've learned, God taught us, early, is to go to Him in prayer. So that is practical. I'm talking about prayer a lot, but it's such a part of our life and our marriage. And we've seen it make such a difference and that's why, I think, it always can be our first go-to.

I mean, even we'd be talking about something with kids or something, and we're just trying to figure something out, and then one of us would say "Why don't we pray?" And you pray and a minute later, "Okay, oh, that makes sense." There's an answer, so God shows up in those things.

Dr. Kim: Staying in the Word, I think, is so important. We always read through the Bible in the year, one of those plans. I think it allows us, because we're reading the same thing every day. If we see something, or have a question, or talk about it. Even, sometimes, the Old Testament, sometimes, I think, one time she says, "How many more people are they going to kill?" You can even kind of think because there are some very differences there.

I think too, the awareness that we talked about realizing what is attacks because, sometimes, it's so subtle that you think it's the other person when it's really not. It really is the enemy that has found a foothold and is fighting you. 

Seeing yourselves as a team and fighting together. All those things make a difference over time and being consistent with that. And the times that we are, if you're really together in prayer, reading the Bible together, fighting things together, that gives you so much strength in fighting these battles with the enemy.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, yes, I think so too. I think there are times in our marriage where we've thought "Maybe this is a spiritual attack." And, sometimes, I think, not that it doesn't matter if it is or not, but it doesn't matter if we know it is or not. Sometimes we can get caught up in trying to figure it out, "What is this happening? Why is this happening? What's going on? How do we...?" 

Instead of just doing what you're saying, Dr. Kim, the practical, "Let's pray about it. Let's get on the same page." Because I think it can become a little bit of a distraction if you're stuck trying to diagnose it, why? Why is not really a helpful question, usually. If there's something you need to change, but I think the more helpful thing is just action to do the steps to pray.

I know for us, a lot of times, one of my go-to is I just put on worship music in the house because, sometimes, there's just a heaviness. Maybe all the kids are like, grumbly at once, and it's like "We need this atmosphere to change, and so let's put on worship music." Soft, so that the kids don't even really notice it, and just let it go.

And, then, for us, another thing we have done sometimes is instead of trying to figure it out, we'll just say, " I don't feel very connected, but I want that to change."

And, so, those times when we just can't get on the same page and we keep trying to fix the issue, it can get like beating a dead horse. So instead to say, "I don't feel connected, this isn't how I want it to be. I'd like this to be better." Instead of me trying to tell Brian how he can fix it, I'm going to try to invite some connection and that really helps, too.

Dr. Kim: Yes, I think all those are really good. And, as you were talking about that, how do we know if it's spiritual or not. It reminded me of a young guy, a college guy, that I worked with just a number of years ago. And the campus he was on is a local Christian university. And for some reason they were just obsessed with the enemy, and it was like everything that happened was the enemy's fault.

So if you have a flat tire, it's the enemy's fault. If your pencil breaks, it's the enemy's fault, all this kind of stuff. So I think we can take it there. Where I think I really start looking at it as an attack from the enemy is that if it's taking me away from my relationship with God, or Nancy, or the things that I value in life that I know God has given me, then I feel for sure it's a spiritual attack. 

Because I mow the grass and it's uneven in one place than the other, it was not that the enemy readjusted my mower while I was mowing. So it's when it really attacks those things that are important to us. 

One thing that Nancy and I did, and I don't want people go out and repaint their houses. But when we built this house, before they did the paint on all the walls, we wrote Scripture on the walls in every room in the house.

And, so, and it was appropriate, like in my office, I've got the pictures we took of each Scripture. But there were certain ones for my office, for Nancy's, for the kitchen, for the living area, for our bedrooms, those kind of things, bathrooms, that we wrote on the wall. It's not magical, but I think Satan doesn't like the Word. 

We have a lady that stays with us each year, for a few days, over the holidays. She was one of my professors in seminary and now she does a lot of mission work. And, so, she's been in some pretty dark places. And the first time she came, after we moved into this house, she walked out the first morning I said, "How'd you sleep?"

She said, "There's more peace in this house than I've ever felt anywhere."

And I thought, "Yes, because God's Word is all over the place."

Lindsay: That's incredible.

Dr. Kim: And, so, anyway, next time you repaint, put some Scriptures on the wall.

Lindsay: Yes, absolutely, and that reminds me, too, we have the House Prayer Cards that we've created. It's a great resource. I mean, people love this because it gives you Scriptures and prayers to pray over each of the rooms of your house. Just to invite in God's presence and to orient the house around what His Scripture says and what His word says. I love that one.

Dr. Kim: That's great.

Lindsay: There's also a YouVersion Plan, we were talking about YouVersion earlier, but the YouVersion Plan, Praying Over Your Home that you've written.

Dr. Kim: Yes, and those are just great ways to fight the battles. And that's why there is so much equipment available to help you fight it, starting with God.

Lindsay: Yes, and He doesn't leave us without resources. He's present, He gives us His word, His presence, power, community, all these things.

Dr. Kim: Yes, and I think just knowing that God always has a way out. He always has an answer and just ask Him, "Okay, God, you do always have answers. You do always have the way out. You always do know how to put us on the right path again. So what do we need to do?"

Lindsay: Mh-hmm, so good. So, Dr. Kim, this has been a really helpful conversation, about a really tough topic. Do you have any final piece of advice for us?

Dr. Kim: Yes, I hope people will just see that there really is that spiritual battle there. For some people, it's kind of still something in the movies or "Is that really real or not?" And I think I've seen enough over the years, of counseling people, and in our marriage, and just from reading the Bible that the enemy is out there and he is attacking. And he does not like marriage and he, especially, doesn't like Christian marriages.

And just to be aware of that in one hand, and then when you feel that and begin to protect yourself. Do those basic things of prayer and Bible reading together, that keeps you strong, when that attack does come.

Lindsay: Yes, that's good. It's a great place to land and we know that we the power of Christ, who was raised from the dead in ourselves, in our marriage, because of Jesus.

Dr. Kim: Thank goodness.

Lindsay: Mh-hmm. So make sure to check out the Couple's Scripture Challenge that we mentioned earlier today. This two-week challenge is simple enough that you can accomplish each day's challenge in 15 minutes or less. It's a great way to build in habits around the Scripture, to spend time with God, and connect spiritually with your spouse.

So you can find that at awesomemarriage.com, under the Strengthen My Marriage option or on today's show notes, wherever you're listening. Next week we're going to be talking about the mental battle for your marriage. So here's a little sneak peek of what you'll hear in that episode.

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Dr. Kim: You don't have to think negative thoughts about that person. You can say, "Okay, how do I communicate better?"

"How do I let them know what I need and want." Those kind of things and try to work in a positive way, instead of getting stuck in negative. Even I think it's harder in our culture now because we live in a pretty negative culture, in so many ways. And, so, I think it can flow over very easily into how we look at our spouse.

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Lindsay: All right, so as always, thanks for tuning in, for sharing your time with us, today. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage today.

[00:40:25] < Outro >

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