The Best Way to Affair Proof Your Marriage | Ep. 516
[00:00:00] < Intro >
Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.
Well, there is one step to affair-proofing a marriage that stands out above the rest, and that is to pre-decide. Make the commitment to stick to those vows you made at the altar and do whatever it takes to maintain them. But that sounds pretty simple, right? So today we're going to get down into the details about how to actually make this simple thing work.
So, Dr. Kim, with all of the effective things to prevent an affair they all start with pre-deciding. Will you explain the term to pre-decide?
Dr. Kim: Yeah, I think, to me, is in your marriage is realizing that the enemy really does want to destroy your marriage. And, so many things that happen, we just have to be aware of that. And, I think, to realize that I'm not as strong as I really think I am sometimes. Pre-deciding helps me to stay within the boundaries, the parameters that I want to stay with my marriage.
So if I pre-decide to always be faithful in my marriage, it's like, "Okay, I pre-decide, it's not how close can I get to the fire without falling in. It's how far can I stay away from the fire." And, so, what do I need to do? I don't need to think, "Well, it's okay to have lunch with someone or to do this." And take those baby steps that on their own are not really that harmful, but they lead to other things.
So it's staying as far away as you can, and to consider the cost. What would happen if I made a decision like that? What would it do to my wife? What would it do to my grandkids, my kids, Awesome Marriage, people in our team that trust me?
I think when we take time to do, then it's pretty easy to decide - pre-decide, "These are things I'm not going to do."
"These are places I'm not going to go."
And, so, I think when you pre-decide, I think, a lot of times we just kind of try to fool ourselves. We put ourselves in a situation, think, "Yeah, we'll do that." But we don't really think it through and then we find ourselves doing something really stupid.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I think, we pre-decide, we say, "I'm not going to go there," and whatever it is. So I get asked to do something that doesn't fit into my parameters. I can say, "No." Or I can look for a compromise or a way around that.
So I think one of the examples I thought of was Scripture is back in the Old Testament with Joseph. And when he was serving Potiphar, and the Potiphar's wife had a thing for him. And, so, she arranges it for him to be in her bedroom and she makes an advance to him, and Joseph runs.
Now, he still gets into trouble, but, I mean, she's got his cloak in his hands. So he knew I shouldn't be in that situation and, so, I got out of it. I think, to me, that's such a good picture of don't go there, but if you get in that situation you can still run.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, absolutely. I think I love that you're saying right off the bat, you're setting the bar a little bit differently. I don't want to say a higher bar because the bar is faithfulness either way. But it's like rather than just saying like, "I'm just going to white knuckle it and I'm not going to give into that temptation."
It's more like, "I'm going to make sure I'm not in a situation where I'm thinking I could handle temptation and not ever give in."
Or "I'm not going to get myself in a situation where I'm like that close."
So I think there's a lot of humility in what you're saying, which is kind of one of the phrases you've said a lot. Is that the most vulnerable we are, is when we think we're not vulnerable. Which is a great sort of heart check is, if you just think you can make it and, "I'll never do this or that." That is so prideful and it's not very helpful either.
Dr. Kim: No, it's interesting you said that it reminded me of a couple of people that I'd worked with that said, "I can't believe I did that."
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And then we kind of get back into it, well, they never pre-decided not to do that. So they get in the situation thinking, probably, just "I can handle temptation." And, so, you don't do the things to pre-decide, and you get in a situation and you haven't pre-decided so you make a mistake.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Or you really cause harm to your marriage. And, so, I think all that goes together in pre-deciding.
Lindsay: Yeah, so, along those lines what does it take to then follow through, and make pre-deciding work as an affair preventative?
Dr. Kim: I think you have to have, for us, it's having a vision for your marriage. I think Nancy and I, early in marriage, no one on either sides of our families had ever had a divorce. And I think we just committed we didn't want to be the first.
I think when we really went through struggles in the early years of the marriage, one of the things that we kept coming back to, "We are not going to be the first to get a divorce." And that constraint helped us in.
So, I think, "What do you want your marriage to look like?" Do you want to live 50, 60, 70, years with this person and be faithful the whole time? And see what that can do in a marriage and work through things. And, so, I think, how do you look at your marriage?
And then once you decide that, I think, you commit to it together, and to God that, "This is what we're going to do." And, so, I think you go through those steps. Then, "Okay, how do we carry this out?"
"What boundaries do we need to set?"
Nancy and I talked, a long time ago, what our boundaries should be with members of the opposite sex.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Because we were really young when we got married, and everybody else we knew and ran around with was single. So some of those conversations happened then because we couldn't do the things that we saw our single friends doing, at times.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, we set those boundaries and then I think just completely being honest with yourself, with God, with your spouse. I think sometimes when I tell people that temptation is not a sin, I get a funny look. But we know Jesus was tempted and He didn't sin.
And, so, temptation is not a sin, it's what we do with it afterwards. And, so, I think, that all goes into making pre-deciding work. Get this vision with each other, put the accountability in place, set the boundaries, and when you struggle tell each other. I had a good friend that he has written some books, good guy.
But he was in his study and he had started talking to an old girlfriend. And, so, he did that about twice and then he realized, "This didn't really catch up with her, and I'm kind of starting to get some of those old feelings I had for her."
So he checks out of that deal, goes down, and talks to his wife. He is honest with her and say, "I need to tell you this because in this area I didn't know I was vulnerable, and let's talk about it. And what do I need to do? I'm going to tell my accountability partner, I'm going to ask him to keep me accountable. I've told this person that it was great talking to you, have a great life kind of deal."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I think all of that goes into making it work, too. That accountability and being honest with each other, and it's okay that you were tempted. And it's okay that you maybe even were headed in the wrong direction a little bit but that you stopped, and you told your spouse. I think that's important.
Lindsay: I think so too and it reminds me of Scripture, I want to say it's James. Whoops, I didn't have it in my show notes because it just, as you were saying this, it reminded me of one of my favorite Scriptures for when I am tempted in different things, "Resist the devil and he'll flee from you." And that's a great picture of he's coming but you can resist him, and when you resist he'll flee from you.
That's great because if you make it through the temptation without giving in, like Jesus made it through without giving in. Then, eventually, at the end of Jesus' temptation devil walks away. He leaves. He has no power there. And, so, it's kind of making it through gives you that encouragement that, "Oh, I can survive temptation. Temptation doesn't mean I have to give into it, it just means I have to resist it." So I think that's a good encouragement.
Dr. Kim: I think if we look at it, it really is a battle. And not that we have to battle every day but I think we have to be prepared to battle every day.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And I think pre-deciding helps us to be prepared to battle
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, I think so. I think that's a great point. And, I think, too, a lot of what we're talking about is sort of keeping a healthy view of marriage or a healthy mindset of marriage. I know that, probably, one of the biggest areas that is tempting, for me in my marriage, is to just be so selfish, and just look for my fulfillment, and look for my validation or gratification.
And, so, when I have a selfish mindset it's a lot easier to be tempted to look outside my marriage. Because if Brian isn't fulfilling me because he can't, because he can't fill me up, he can't make me happier, he can't make me feel good about myself. So that puts me in a really dangerous spot.
But it stems from that selfish mindset that I'm just looking for him to do something he can't do in the first place. So he's obviously not going to be able to do it and, so, that's going to leave me kind of like grasping for something more.
But then if instead I flip it back to like, "Okay, actually, what marriage is, is designed for us to both sacrifice and love like Christ loves." That's a very different view of marriage.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely, and you hit on something that we all struggle with, selfishness, I think, it's the root problem for all of us and most of the things that get us in trouble it's just being selfish.
And it's easy sometimes, especially, I think in the culture we live in now to justify our selfishness, that we feel like we're entitled to that or "My spouse should be doing this or shouldn't be doing that." So we get unrealistic expectations and then they don't meet them, and then we justify the step that we take that's not going to be good.
Lindsay: Yeah, that's so true. And that reminds me of something when you talked with Debra Fileta, pretty recently, it was about being healthy. But she talked about how when you look at what you can change in the situation, it's really empowering because you're not waiting for your spouse.
But you're actually going, "Okay, whether they do the thing I want or not, I still have it within my power to act with integrity to do what's right." And that's a good place to be because we can choose that not based on what somebody else does.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely, I just finished a deal it's in my Dispatch coming out in a week or two. But I titled it, "What If". And I think we go through these, "What if my spouse did this? Will I be happy?"
"What if my spouse did this? Will our marriage be better?" And what I said you got to point the finger back at you. It's "What if I did this? Would this make my marriage better?"
"What if I was kinder?"
"What if I was gentler?"
"What if I listened better?"
And put it back on us instead of thinking, "Well, that's what they're supposed to do." And some people get locked in, "Well, until they do that, I'm not doing anything."
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Well, that's just the height of the problem, that's not going to get better so I think it's just continuing to do those things.
Lindsay: Yeah, I've been there, it's not good.
Dr. Kim: Most of what I know I've learned from my own experiences.
Lindsay: Well, but it's like once you shake back out of that, it's like, "Oh, man, that was really a bad situation." Like that was never going to go well."
Dr. Kim: Exactly, and why do we think it would?
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, it's, essentially, basing your action on just scorekeeping, like keeping score the whole time and that is never going to add up.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
[00:12:25] < Music >
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[00:14:15] < Music >
Lindsay: This is a tough one - I'm curious what you're going to say. But what if you don't trust that your spouse is as committed to this pre-decision as you are, can you ensure that your spouse won't cheat?
Dr. Kim: No. You know I wish there was a way we could do that unless you want to lock them away somewhere, that's not going to happen. You can't control anybody's behavior but your own and, so, I think that's hard. Because I've seen people do all kinds of things to keep their spouse from cheating, and if the spouse has made the decision to cheat, they're going to cheat.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I think, for someone that's in that situation, I think it would be really good to talk to a Christian counselor. And kind of "Okay, this is where I am on this, this is my spouse is how do I handle this?"
"How do I do this in a way that sets my boundaries, and that lets me be who God created me to be and, yet, set those boundaries in a good way."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: "And how do I do that and how do I handle those things" Because I've seen people that spent years trying to change their spouse and you just can't do that.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Dr. Kim: Only the Holy Spirit can change them.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm. So do you see people trying to change their spouse because they have cheated in the past or just because they're fearful or suspicious?
Dr. Kim: I think some people bring the fear into marriage. Maybe their dad cheated on their mom, or their mom cheated on their dad, or something like this. And, so, they made a decision in their mind somewhere that, "Well, maybe my spouse might cheat on me." And not have been even that much of a conscious decision.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, they come into marriage with their guard up, so they're always checking the phone, their spouse's phone, or doing stuff like that, well, that's not a way to live either. You're in this relationship this would be miserable to do this the rest of your life.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Dr. Kim: You've got to think, "Has your spouse done anything to make you feel that way?"
"No." But I know they might. And, so, it's like, "Okay, you got to trust them and work on it from that standpoint.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And then I think there's also those who maybe they've been in the relationship, been in their marriage, one of the spouse went outside the marriage. Came back in, they chose to work on it but that's tough and I've seen people make it. But the person who went out has to be super accountable.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: As you build something back because building trust is hard. They've got to be willing to do whatever it takes forever.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, if they fall off of that a little bit, I think, there's a lot of healing that has to take place. And, so, what I tell the other spouse is you can't control this. You've got to know that your spouse was accountable to you because they chose to do that. People just don't go places that they don't need to go.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, all of that I think goes into that you can't ensure that they're not going to cheat.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: What you can do is pray, and love them, and be willing to trust.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff there, in what you just said because, I think, if we're treating somebody with suspicion, that's not really breeding closeness or intimacy. It's going to feel a little bit off. And, so, whether or not the spouse has made a full commitment to being faithful, if you're treating them like a cheater, you're not going to feel very close.
Dr. Kim: And I get that. I mean, there's that risk you don't want to get hurt like that again.
Lindsay: Right.
Dr. Kim: Obviously Nancy and I've never had that happen. I can't imagine what that would've done to either one us if that happened, so I get that part of it. But, again, if I went outside the marriage she couldn't change me.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: That's got to just be something between me and God, and letting Him work in my life.
Lindsay: Yeah, it reminds me of the podcast episode we have that we've aired it, and then we, actually, re-aired it last summer, Amber and Arly's story, where they go into a lot of detail about exactly how they built that trust back. And I think that's a really good insight to the willingness to do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to build trust back.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I think that's a great podcast. I would encourage anyone who hasn't heard it to go back. Because they really did things right.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: There was tough love. There was repentance, there was accountability, there was building back trust. And, so, they did it really well, and that is a marriage that is thriving now.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, that's awesome. That's so encouraging.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Dr. Kim: I think, too, like what you said, Dr. Kim, speaking to a Christian counselor about that, if you are concerned about the potential of your spouse being unfaithful. I think that's a place where you either have to choose to trust or figure out sort through what's going on there? What's behind it. And if it's coming from some kind of past baggage or past wounds. That would be a great thing to go ahead and sort through.
Because wherever there's something that keeps coming up, there's a pattern that you could get some healing for. God can help you process through that and heal that, so you don't have to be so worried or fearful. And then you can work on billing trust with the spouse, you can grow that, so that you can feel more trust there.
And the reason I thought of this question, Dr. Kim, is because if you do an internet search everyone wants to know how to prevent affairs, right. And, so, we're talking about it from like, "What can I do to prevent?" But then a lot of the internet searches suggest that the question is, "What can I do to get my spouse not to do this?" Which is it's a totally different question.
Dr. Kim: Yeah, and I don't know that there's anything that you can do, honestly.
Lindsay: Right.
Dr. Kim: I've had women that have said, "I'll have more sex, this stuff." All that is great but it doesn't make it not happen.
Lindsay: Right, I know we've all seen it and it's terrible, it's heartbreaking. But to come at it from that angle it's going to be a losing battle if you need to ensure their behavior.
Dr. Kim: Right.
Lindsay: So I think for each of us to look at this, like, "What can I do to build this marriage up?" That's helpful. But I also think that one more thing on this topic is, if there's some serious red flags don't ignore those. If you can't trust yourself, if they're not trustworthy, if they aren't where they say they're going to be. They don't do what they say they're going to do. If they're making decisions that are clearly not in health of the marriage, you need to address those.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. I think things that I've seen, and I think it's interesting if you really have given yourself to the marriage and you trust. So you're not going to be looking for things you don't want to just, all of a sudden, all the time, just be checking up or something like that. You've got to live and trust.
But if you start seeing, feeling like your spouse was so transparent before, but now they're not. They're kind of vague about what they're doing.
Maybe there's time they're not accountable for, and you see it, you begin to see a pattern, not a one-time thing because we can always do that.
Maybe you see that they're on their mobile device a lot and when you come in they seem to get off of it quickly, which would mean a number of things.
And then I think just anything that seems out of place, not quite as connected, different behavior, all those kind of things, and, I think, it's important to address it. It's just to say, "Hey, things are not who we are is something going on?" Most people, honestly, are going to deny it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: But sometimes just getting it on the table. Because I've also had people that were confronted, and then came back later and said, "Yeah, I've been doing this but I don't want to, and I want our marriage to work." Things like that. So, but, I just don't want anybody to think that, "Okay, I need to be on high alert most of the time." Because that's not fun.
Lindsay: No.
Dr. Kim: That's not impressive and I think people get obsessed with that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So, I think, if you just see some consistent red flags then maybe it's time to have a conversation.
"Look is something going on?"
Lindsay: Yeah, sure, and I think, too, one other red flag is if you don't feel like you've built good trust or connection in your marriage. Like if you're not feeling unified or united and whether that's from the past, or from personal baggage or not, I think that's something that you can grow through that and you can build on that. You can definitely work towards that together, and then doing that will help you to feel more trusting of each other.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay: And it's kind of like what you said in the past, Dr. Kim, about when you and Nancy struggled with your marriage when you really struggled. You thought, "Well, I don't want to lose my best friend." And, so, it's what things have you done to build this marriage into a place that you both want to stay?
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. And, to me, with all we're talking about the best way to affair-proof, your marriage is both of you to put a 100% into your marriage.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Because what Nancy and I built, it makes all the other alternatives not look very good at all, they look horrible. And, so, I think that does help. Well, I think it does kind of not that I'm still couldn't be tempted, I've got to always keep that in mind.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: But that I wouldn't trade what we have for anything or anybody. And I think if you build that and put God at the center, that's really the best way to affair-proof your marriage.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yeah, absolutely. It's true, I think, in those hard days of marriage, it's like, "Well, would a custody battle be more fun?" It would not. I've seen them, it looks terrible. If you go through literally thinking through what would be the alternative to this hard work, it's just more hard work. It's different, worse, it's not good.
Dr. Kim: And, so, if there's any way to work in and save a marriage or to do the things that we're talking to prevent something like that happen. Then you can really enjoy your marriage more all the time, and build it into something that's very precious to you and to your spouse.
Lindsay: Yeah, and one final thing, well, I guess, this gets us into the next question, so I'll say both at once. So my next question is what are some personal red flags and what do we need to check ourselves on? And, so, what that was making me think of is it like if you are just kind of in that unsettled place within yourself. If you're not pursuing your personal health and not thriving as a person. Then you'll need to take some steps and some ownership over your own personal life that God has given you to steward, to take some steps towards health independent of whatever it does to your marriage.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: And, I think, it will help your marriage.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: But I think you have to take ownership of that and make some choices to make yourself healthy.
Lindsay: I agree. I think, for me, if I each day or whatever think about, "Is there anything that I'm doing, or saying, or thinking, that I wouldn't do, or say, or think, if Nancy was there.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And if there is, then I need to deal with that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And the same thing you can do with God, "Am I doing...?" Because God already knows all that. But just a self-check-up on yourself, I think, it helps. Because I think we can justify things so easily. And, I think, well, that's not too bad. "Well, would I say that to Nancy?"
Or "Would I let her know that?"
Or "Would let her know I was thinking about that?" No. So that's a red flag, for me.
Lindsay: Yeah, do you have any other ones?
Dr. Kim: That would, probably be, I'm sure there are different things that we need to do. Certainly, if you have been, I think, pornography is a good thing to bring up because it's so prevalent, and so many men struggle with it at one level or other. And, so, if you've gotten away from it, but then you knew you were tempted to look at something online again, and then you find out that you're doing it. I think when you cross some lines like that, that should be a red flag to you.
"I don't want to go back into that. I know it's not good for me or my marriage." Things like that.
And, so, just kind of all those areas that you know maybe have affected it in the past, in a negative way. And, so, the red flag is a warning sign and the bright answer is, "I'm not going there again. I may need to get in some counseling."
"I may need to get back in my small group."
"I may need to do this so I can get myself back on track."
Lindsay: Yeah, that's good. I think another one that I thought of is if you don't have a habit of praying or being in Scripture. I think that's one of the best ways to re-orient our heart and our mind around God's purpose, and God's plan for our life and for our marriage.
And, so, if you don't have a daily time where you're talking to God or spending time with God, I think that's a dangerous place to be. Because Jeremiah, the book of Jeremiah in the Bible says that, "The heart is deceitful above all else." Like the human heart is, we can't trust ourselves, so we have to have God's help. We have to invite His conviction, which is painful and uncomfortable, but He'll answer.
And if our goal is to follow Jesus then that's going to require some sacrifices, and it's going to require some disciplines, and some habits that might be difficult but also will be really life-giving.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm, very good.
Lindsay: So staying close to God and allowing Him just to speak into our life is a really helpful way. But also I have two other ones which is, one is, if you're shying away from honest conversation with your spouse or friends, or not wanting to talk about certain things that are, kind of like the example you gave earlier, Dr. Kim, of like the reconnecting with the ex-girlfriend or whatever.
If that person had continued on that route and not wanted to talk to his wife or not disclosed that, that would've been a red flag.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: And also ignoring a gut feeling. If you have a gut feeling about someone that they are not a safe person to interact with, and I don't mean physically safe, but I mean emotionally safe. If you pick up on something there is something there you don't have to know what it is. You don't have to follow it down the rabbit hole and figure out, what's that feeling.
But I've found that sometimes there is sort of just a gut feeling that somebody's putting out some sort of a vibe. I don't know how to say it. And I've learned just through seeing people go through things that if you feel that it's okay to just say, "You know what, that's not a friendship for us." If you had a couple friends and one of them didn't feel comfortable for some reason, there's probably a good reason for that.
Dr. Kim: Yeah, and I'm going to add onto that. I think as guys, we need to listen to our wives. I think wives are much wiser in that than we are, I think God gave them an instinct. I've had some women in the past that have said, "He hired this person and I knew the first time I was around that person that I just felt something." And so they talked about it.
And, so, the guy didn't fire the person but put him in a way just to protect himself. And, so, I just do think women can sense some things that we don't sense, and I think just listen to your wife. If she's seeing some red flags, don't blow that off.
Lindsay: Yeah.
Dr. Kim: Listen to what she's saying. And I think, too, when you're saying about being honest with God and that relationship with Him. I think for a long time I thought that if I didn't talk to God about it He didn't know about it, and that just is not true. And, so, it's like, "Well, if I don't pray, if I don't mention this in my prayer then God won't know about it."
No, He knows. And, so, why not be open and transparent? We know He is forgiveness. We know He has a plan for our life. We know He wants what's best for us.
So why not dive into that instead of acting like, "Well, God, didn't know about this He was busy doing something else."
Lindsay: Right.
Dr. Kim: But He wasn't, He was busy with you.
Lindsay: Yeah, and it's a lot easier to live light and free when you're letting go of that stuff. Letting God in not trying to hide stuff from spouse or God it's a lot easier.
Dr. Kim: Oh, my gosh, yes.
Lindsay: You don't have to watch your back, it's fine. That's a good place to be.
Dr. Kim: If you're working on transparency, I think, God is really the first place to do that because He is going to embrace that, accept that, and help you through that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes.
[00:31:28] < Music >
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Dr. Kim says one of the keys to an awesome marriage is being a student of your spouse. This challenge gives you 18 ways to take that advice seriously. This challenge is a 12-page PDF. Here is how it works. Each day you pray this simple prayer, you read the challenge, and then you do the challenge. When you take on this challenge you are not only growing your marriage, you're also supporting the mission of Awesome Marriage with a donation of any amount.
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Lindsay: What if there has been an affair in the past? What do you recommend?
Dr. Kim: It's hard. I think forgiveness has to be a part of it. I think sometimes, and I get it, that most people can't just say, "Oh, okay, I forgive you, it's all right." No, it's usually a process. And as you work on it, it becomes a reality over time, so I think that forgiveness is a huge issue.
Rebuilding trust is essential, and trust takes time, it takes effort. When there's been an affair it does change things. That doesn't mean your marriage can't be good. That doesn't mean it can't be better than it was, but it changes things.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I think, forgiveness and if both are in it together to work on it and make it different. And, I think, the other side of it is if your spouse is not all in, or they're still seeing the other person. Accepting the reality at some point that, like we've talked about, you can't control them.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: You can only control yourself and that you might have to make some tough decisions.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, and, of course, we'll say that a Christian counselor would really help with that process, would really be helpful.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: They've seen it before. They've seen it all, they can offer a perspective and help that you can't do on your own.
Dr. Kim: And, I think that if a couple comes in together, and they're struggling with things like we're talking about today. I think, as a counselor, with some things you talk about in counseling with the homework you give, the counselor is going to know pretty quickly whether you're both all in or out. And if I see that one is all in the other isn't, I know that we're very limited in what we can do.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And the things in the marriage, probably, aren't going to change, and it's just trying to help this person walk through this.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, that's true. And then we also, we do have an Online Affair Recovery Course that we have created at Awesome Marriage, which is a great step in this process. So it's not going to do all the work for you but it will give you a great guide from some couples who've been through it, and then through some experts to help you walk through the process. So we'll have that link in the show notes as well.
So starting to close up, the idea of pre-deciding sounds simple on the surface. Is it really that simple?
Dr. Kim: I think it's something we have to do.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: No, it's not simple, but I think it's something that if we're going to live our lives the way we want to, that we vowed to do that honors God, and honors our spouse. It just makes sense to pre-decide some things and take those off the table, and by pre-deciding, and having a plan, you can do that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yeah. I think it's one of those things where it's like, if you don't have this piece, if you don't have the pre-decision, then no other step you take matters. You can make as many boundaries as you want but you haven't already committed. Not just at your wedding vows, but this continual desire to stick with that decision, all the other boundaries you could draw or whatever you could do won't matter as much if you're not a 100% committed to that.
So I think it's simple, but not easy, like most things.
Dr. Kim: Yeah, and, I think, you want to involve God in the middle of it. "God, I am pre-deciding to do this and prompt me, let me know if I get off track or whatever. Help me to continue to follow through with this."
Lindsay: Absolutely.
Dr. Kim: Then you got a partnership.
Lindsay: Yes, and then ideally with your spouse as well, so all three working together and being honest with them, and being along for that together. And, I think, it's important to say that great things take hard work. And to build a great marriage, it might look like other people have it easy, they don't. It's not easy for any of us, it takes work. So the more you're willing to accept that and realize that it will take hard work, the more you're going to enjoy it. Because you're not going to expect it to just float on by.
Dr. Kim: Right, Cinderella left the building.
Lindsay: Yes. So, Dr. Kim, do you have any final piece of advice for us today?
Dr. Kim: I hope this has helped some people. I think there are things that we can do proactively, like pre-decide, that are really going to keep us from getting in trouble.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, I think, for some couples that this is kind of a key that maybe they have not done that, that this will help you get on track with it. Whether that involves just making decisions, repentance, asking forgiveness, whatever that is. But to listen to this and if it fits at all to decide what your next step is, to pray about it, and then take that step.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, that's good. That's a good word.
Well, this has been a helpful conversation about what it means to pre-decide and how effective that is to prevent an affair. So make sure that you are following us on Instagram and Facebook. Find Dr. Kim over on TikTok because we're doing a lot of fun things over there. We've got date night ideas, we've marriage tips, couples challenges, memes, all kinds of stuff, and I'll make sure those links are in the show notes.
Next week on the podcast we're going to talk about in-law issues. That should be fun. So make sure you tune in for some insight on how to deal with those.
Dr. Kim: I'm sure nobody has those problems, but we felt like we should.
Lindsay: We don't hear anything about that at all.
Dr. Kim: Not at all. And, I think, too, if you enjoyed today's podcast it would really be nice if you'd take a minute to leave us a rating and a review. Leaving a review on iTunes is really one of the best ways to help the show be more visible to people who haven't seen it yet. And there's a lot of those people that we want to be a part of this community.
We have a lot of marriage content out there. We're passionate about bringing God's purpose of marriage in the podcast space. So your ratings, your reviews, can help us make that happen. And if you follow the link in the show notes, you're going to do the review page. I would love for you to do that and would really appreciate you helping spread the word about The Awesome Marriage Podcast and help us get the word out.
Lindsay: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for listening, sharing your time with us today. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage today.
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Announcer: Thanks for listening to The Awesome Marriage podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the Ministry of Awesome Marriage and produced by Lindsay Few, with music by Noah Copeland. If you haven't signed up for Dr. Kim's Weekly Marriage Multiplier Email, we encourage you to do so today.
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