In Law Issues | Ep. 517
[00:00:00] < Intro >
Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host Lindsay Few on the show will be our host Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.
When you married your spouse, you also married into their family. In-Laws can be a real blessing but they're not always. So how do we make the best of that relationship? Do we need to set boundaries or give grace? Well, we get a lot of questions about this topic. So today we're talking all about in-law issues.
So, Dr. Kim, is it common for couples to struggle to deal with each other's family of origin?
Dr. Kim: I think so. I think, probably, if you lined up a hundred couples, there would be more that said yes than others, and I think for a lot of reasons. None of us grew up in the same home, so there's going to be differences there.
I think, if you grew up in a home that you thought was pretty good, then you, kind of, think this is the way it should be. And, so, you marry somebody and it's different then you've got to deal with that and, so, there are differences. Parents are different.
But when you're married, you've got to figure out how to be, it needs to be separate from your family of origin. That doesn't mean you leave them out in the cold, but it does mean that can't be a mess, it needs to be healthy. It's figuring out how to be still connected, be independent because there are some in-laws can be more controlling than others. Some are laid back.
I think in our situation, mine were very laid back. In fact, when we were getting back from our honeymoon and like, "Do they even know we're here?" They were trying to give us space and not be intrusive. And, so, we worked out a deal that really worked well for us.
On the other hand, I think, if we'd lived where Nancy's parents were, because I saw it with her sisters, they would've been more intrusive. Love them, but they were more intrusive and didn't really understand boundaries, and, certainly, probably, would've honored the boundaries we set, but they would never have initiated something like that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So, I think, just because of the differences and just because of personality types, you've got to have to figure out, "How do I deal with these people? They did give me my husband or my wife. So there's got to be something good in them, let's see if we can figure it out."
Lindsay: Yes, for sure. I know when we got married, I had what I thought was a really wonderful upbringing with my family. So I just thought, I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but I thought, "Well, just absorb Brian right into it because he'll love this too." And he was going, "I mean, yes, they're great, but I married you." It's not like we all wanted to, necessarily, be together all the time, so some learning curve there for sure.
Dr. Kim: And, I think, that hits everybody at some point. I've had a few people that really grew up together, parents were friends and, so, they understood the culture. They'd kind of worked through things like that but that's so rare.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: It's nice when it happens because it takes some of those problems off the table. But most of us, sometimes, realize, "How do we make this work?"
Lindsay: Mm-hmm. So what are some of the common pain points that people have with their in-laws?
Dr. Kim: I think control. In-laws trying to control your marriage. Still treating, maybe, both of you like you're not adults. They're still kind of the parent and you got their child. I mean, you're married and all that stuff, but, "We're older and wiser and, so, you're going to come under us." I think that control.
I think, when an in-law continues to support their adult child financially, that can cause some problems. I've seen situations where maybe the dad of the daughter, maybe, he continued to give her money like he had when she was living under his roof, and the husband feels like, "You're not even allowing me a chance to lead. You're not allowing me a chance to be the husband that God wants me to be."
And, so, I've had situations like that where they've gone and they said, "You can't do this anymore. You can't give money to her anymore, let's just be on the same page of that." So, I think that not seeing a couple as independent, and then, I think, manipulation.
"We have Sunday dinner every Sunday night and we expect you to be there, but if you don't that's okay."
Sunday comes, "Well, we're going to stay home tonight."
"Oh, well, you know grandmother's going to be here, and she hadn't been feeling well. I don't know how many more of these she's going to bake." And then all of a sudden the manipulation starts, and then you go and you feel bad for not going. And then on the way home you think, "That makes me so mad, doing things like that."
So those are some of the things that I see, and it is just really a boundary issue in a lot of ways. And someone not seeing their new husband and wife as a separate entity. Yes, they're part of the big family, but they've got to have their own family. They can't be just enmeshed with the family of origin or family of origins.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm. Yes, so what are some of the scenarios that'll bring those issues out. I love the example you gave of the family dinner or of like the secret allowance kind of thing. But what else would spark some of this stuff?
Dr. Kim: I think sometimes when we break traditions, it makes a big deal. I tell couples that are and usually go over in premarital counseling. If you guys like holidays. If you've got set traditions in your family and you know that his family and your family both celebrate this at the same time and they always have.
You need to talk to him about it. "We're going to have to start alternating." And you need to talk about it in August, or June, or July, not at Thanksgiving dinner of what we're going to do for Christmas. Give people more time to work through that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So, I think, I see that a lot. "We've always had Christmas Eve dinner at seven o'clock right after we went to communion or whatever, and you can't break that." And sometimes you do, sometimes that you have to because things have got to be different and you've got two sets of in-laws' families to deal with now.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I think raising kids, sometimes, the in-laws think that because they raised their kids that they know about raising everybody's kids. But they don't have your kids. They're grandparents to them, but they're not living with them. And, so, I think, butting in telling you what you're doing wrong with kids when it's not initiated. I think, there are times with our adult kids and their kids, if they'll come say, "Hey, what did y'all do in this situation?"
Or, "What do you think?"
And, so, well, if they come and ask our advice we'll give it to them. But we also make sure that they know if you don't take it, it's okay.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: We're just a resource for you. It's not like if we say this "We better see you follow through with it." And, I think, that happens sometimes where they do that.
And then money and how it's spent, I think, that can cause some problems. But "Well, you all didn't do this, and you bought that, or whatever." Just in-laws sticking their nose where they don't need to stick it, just be blunt about it. I mean, it really is, those are their decisions. What Nancy and I had to realize, and we realized it pretty quickly, because my parents taught us that. You need to give your adult children room to fail.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: The things that Nancy and I learned the most, in all areas, finances, everything when we failed. And, so, if we're still trying to protect them, that's just not healthy. We've got to let them learn and grow.
So they buy a house they can't really afford and they can't do anything outside of the home for five years. Because they've extended themselves too far. Well, they'll learn from it and they'll let God help them work some things out. So, anyway, those are some of the ones that I see are pretty consistent, that seem to happen. Do you see anything different?
Lindsay: Those all sound pretty familiar. I think of when you're talking about giving a room to fail. I think, I've seen sometimes words like the in-laws, "Oh we don't want you living in that kind of house. No, we don't want our child there. We are going to make sure you have a nicer place to be. We're going to give you this gift or blessing to make sure you have a nicer home."
But then the blessing comes with some strings attached. That are not spoken, that are not articulated. Then there's this sort of feeling that, "Well, we helped you, so now we can have some ownership here too." Which is messy, I've seen that a lot of times.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Or that kind of rescuing like, "Oh, no, you've got too much credit card debt. We don't want your spouse to find out about that, so I'll take care of that for you, sweetie." From the parent to the adult married child and just I've seen that makes me very uncomfortable, even from afar. Because it's just that sort of enmeshed dependent relationship, and I have not seen it go well.
But then also communication. I've seen some, and we all deal with this in our own marriages. But then with the in-laws it can take another level of like, "Oh, will you address this with your parents?"
"No, you can handle that with them."
Like, "What? I don't want to talk to your parents about that thing, that's awkward."
So a lot of different ways that each of those things can go awry.
Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And the thing a lot of times, unless you've got some real domineering parents, you, probably, don't see that when you're dating.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Maybe you'll see some of it come out and I guess how close you are, how much you're around them. But sometimes, I think, what really comes out or you think, "Well, we're not married yet. So when we get married, they'll back off." But they don't always. And, so, sometimes you don't even know that they could be that way until you are into marriage. And then, again, it's something as a couple you have to address together.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm. And this, I mean, in some smaller ways, like I dealt with a lot when I was early in marriage. I would call my mom all the time, call her every day and tell her all these things.
So after a while I started realizing, "Oh, I can't tell her when we've had an argument because she's going to take my side. She's going to tell me I'm right." And that's not necessarily even true, but it's also not helpful. And, so, just learning, like, okay, we have to deal with all these things together as a couple. Instead of running back to mom every time."
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: It was just really, honestly, it was a habit I had when I was single.
Dr. Kim: Sure.
Lindsay: And I thought it was just fine, and it was serving no problems until I started to realize, "Wait a minute, this is a new season. I'm married now so we have to prioritize that relationship first." And, I think, that's when I first started to really understand what it would mean to "Leave and cleave," as the Bible says.
Dr. Kim: That's so good.
Lindsay: Because I had already moved out. I hadn't lived with my parents for a few years already. So it wasn't leaving in that sense, but leaving in terms of that being my primary relationship.
Dr. Kim: That's really well said. Because, I think, we do, we have to leave the single life behind whatever that means for us, and embrace the marriage relationship. So when you would talk to your mom, you'd go to Brian and tell him he's wrong, "Because my mom said so." He didn't like that.
Lindsay: Of course, I'd already told him he was wrong, he should have known. {laughs} And then it's like realizing, what is that going to do to their relationship? Now, they have a really beautiful relationship. But at first it was not set up for success because I'm going, "Well, that's right, she's going to take my side." And he's like "What?"
Dr. Kim: Yep, absolutely. Plus, you recover from it, you were upset at Brian and you talked to your mom about it. You and Brian work it out, well, she's still mad because, "You did that to my daughter." And, so, I don't think that got a Christian counselor have a good mentor or have a good friend that you trust to talk about those things with.
Lindsay: Yes, absolutely, that's very good. Or, even better, just start working it out together one-on-one because eventually you'll have to get there. So, okay, this is a tough question, but how can a couple know if they should set a boundary on something versus if they need to just give grace for a difference of opinion or just different preferences?
Dr. Kim: Yes, I think that's a great question. I really would say the first thing as a couple is to pray about it. To really ask God's wisdom into that, and then to kind of talk it through and get on the same page. And once you're on the same page, then it gives you what your next step is going to be.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: This is something that's important and we've talked to them about it. It's never her, you both agree on it. "So we're going to set this boundary and we're going to let them know what that boundary is."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I think, that's really important to be able to take that step. And then if it's something that it just involves accepting maybe where they are or they have a different opinion, and that's okay, we don't agree with it.
I think in the last couple of years I've had so many families that have been split because of political differences and things like that, probably, in a way that in my lifetime I've never seen before. And, so, most of the time, if that's a situation, it's going to be an opinion difference.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Sometimes I think it's blown out of proportion, but there's not really boundary there. Well, I guess there could be, if all they're doing is trying to make you believe the way they believe or something like that.
But I think that's kind of the process I would go through, pray, get on the same page. And in that, I think, how does this affect us and our marriage? I think that's a really good question to ask. If they're just nuts and they're not really affecting you, that's, probably, not the best word to use. But, then, let them live their life. Now, if it's coming in and that's in your place and your relationship, then you got to do something about it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So, I think, just because you see, and they're not doing something that bugs you doesn't mean that you're the policeman. And that you're the one who has to set the boundaries, or come down on or something like that.
Lindsay: So would you say, okay, so I like that you used the political division example because, I think, a lot of people can relate to that. Do you think it's helpful, at times, like say, you have family dinner for every holiday and at every holiday there's some kind of big argument. Do you think there's a way to say, "Hey, can we all agree to set this boundary that we're not going to talk about politics?"
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: You know those kind of things, have you seen that work?
Dr. Kim: Yes, but I think sometimes people will test that. So, I think, you have to know what the consequences are.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: "We're going to ask you to leave, honestly. Because we're not going to let that disrupt our family dinner together.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I had a family, and this was really good, it was Christmas and they had an uncle that always came drinking, and he would get louder. And, even though, they, I think, had used to serve wine with dinner on Christmas Eve, they quit doing that. They were willing to do whatever it took to get that out of the way.
Well, of course, he brings his flask and all that stuff. So the husband told him, probably, that Fall sometime, "We're going to do Christmas Eve at our house again and we want you to be there. If you're drinking, come to the door drunk, I'm going to turn you away."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And he said, "Sure." All that kind of stuff. Well, Christmas Eve he came drunk and the husband said, "You can't come in. I'm sorry, but you can't come in." And closed the door and locked it. And that's hard.
Lindsay: Oh, man.
Dr. Kim: But they had to do that. I didn't really get to follow up with him after that, I don't know what happened the next year. I'm hoping that that sent a message to uncle and that he was able to get whatever help he needed.
But I think there's some tough things that come with that, that sometimes you have to follow through with. And, so, whether it's not talking about politics, it's kind of if someone's behavior goes out, whether it's drinking or whatever that is that gets out of control, those kind of things that are tough.
Lindsay: Yes, and that's a great example, too, because it's a really clear boundary and it's enforceable.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: So it was something that they had the ability to enforce that, and that's really important in that situation.
Dr. Kim: It was, and it wasn't the easiest thing for him to stand at the door and tell his uncle that he loved he can't come in. But he was able to see the big picture. Because he could've said, "Well, we'll try it one more Christmas Eve." Because that's not going to do any good. I think that's another important to say we can't set a boundary that you don't follow through with. The people will just learn to discount it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm. Well, that's a good point, too, even just the thought of communicating ahead of time. I like that being that specific about it, that you're thinking ahead. You're not just kind of going, "Oh, no, here we go, it's going to happen again. Oh, this is the worst." Kind of complaining or whatever, but it's actually taking some action.
I can think of some times where if I had been aware of that. If you're having a kid's birthday dinner, you don't want to be talking about politics at the kid's birthday dinner. That doesn't feel good for the kid. They'll remember that, they are not enjoying that. And, so, a couple of times we didn't think to get ahead of it, but we're sitting at the table and afterwards the 10-year-old is like, "Well, that was kind of scary actually."
I'm like, "Oh, my gosh, how did that happen?" And as a parent or even just as a member of the family, you do not want to let these things run amok and create so much discord and tension. So it's going to be a little awkward, probably, to set. I know in a lot of families there's not a lot of clarity like that.
Dr. Kim: Exactly.
Lindsay: Things are not spoken that clearly, things are swept under rugs this way and that. Things are whispered about or there's a group text that one person isn't on.
So in all these situations, that's not doing anything to help and everyone is bearing this stress, you actually could take a step there. So I think that's a good place to know, maybe, you need a boundary if you're carrying stress. If there's tension, if there's other conversations going on behind the scenes.
Dr. Kim: No, and I think it's even more significant not just the politics stuff now. But just since COVID there's been just a lot of interests in a lot of ways, and people have a lot of different opinions that they may have had before, or maybe it was stimulated by this. But they're more vocal about them a lot of times.
So how do we handle those things? How do we honor someone and, certainly, we all have the right to think, believe, but there also comes when they're trying to push that on us or bring that into our life and that's where the boundary would come.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's true. Because, I think, that's a good way to know you don't have to line up on everything. But in these certain situations, that's not the appropriate time to be talking about that all the time. You could have your opinion, you could share your opinion, but that can't be the only thing you ever talk about.
Dr. Kim: Right, and maybe you do want to set a time that you just go to lunch with that person and you guys just talk it out on some stuff. Listen to them well and tell them what you think, sure.
But 10-year-old birthday dinner is not where that happens or Christmas Eve dinner, or Thanksgiving, you put some things off the table there. I mean, there's so many families I've talked to that every Thanksgiving they get in a fight.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And because there's different opinions and they all know it, and they all kind of bow ahead of time. But nobody, as we talked in the last episode, pre-decides not to go there. And, so, all of a sudden there's another Thanksgiving with three people leaving mad and turkey legs on the floor, that they threw at each other, and can't wait till next Thanksgiving.
Lindsay: Wow, it's not a great battle.
Dr. Kim: No.
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Lindsay: All right, so if a couple does decide to set boundaries, how can they do this? Well, you gave us some good steps already. But what else do we need to know to be able to set the boundary really well and lovingly?
Dr. Kim: I think a couple of things, one prayer and really thinking it through like we talked about. Making sure you're being fair on what you're doing. You're not punishing them, and I think that can get in the way because it angers you. And, so, "Well, I'll just set this boundary, you cross that and you don't see your grandkids for 40 years." Because you're mad and, so, you're punishing them for that.
Boundaries are not punishment. Boundaries sort of make relationships healthier. And, so, I think, as you then can have a boundary to set, I think you talk about it together, you agree on the boundary.
I think you both go to talk, usually, to the in-laws about it. But the one who is that person's son or daughter is the one, I think, works better to present that. And I don't think that, as a man, that's abdicating your leadership role.
I think it's being a student of your in-laws and knowing, "I can preach all day and they're not going to hear a word I say. They're going to listen to her, so I'm going to be there with her. I'm going to support her. I'm going to protect her if I need to in this situation but we feel like they're going to hear it better from her than they'd do from me." I think all that's good.
And then just be real consistent with it. You can't set a boundary and not follow through with it and you need to set what the consequences are. "You come for Christmas Eve drunk, you don't get to come in."
You start at the dinner table, "You start a political argument, we're going to ask you to leave." I mean, just kind of let them know what the consequences are, and then you've got to follow through.
Because if you don't and you don't ask them to leave, they'll think, "What was that boundary? They didn't ask me to leave. I'm going to get some more ammunition for the next dinner because I've got some great arguments to go against uncle Bob over here."
Lindsay: Mm. Well, I think that's good. That's not punitive, that's a really important point. And I think that starting with prayer helps you not to start just with anger, like retaliating.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
So it's a great starting point. Do you have any other examples where couples have done this well?
Dr. Kim: I had a couple, and it's still my favorite story, and it happened a number of years ago. But this couple I had done the premarital counseling, done their marriage. And they knew that Christmas was going to be a problem because they did have it where there were very set traditions.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I advised them, at fall, to kind of start talking about it. And, so, they talked to his parents, talked to her parents, nobody would budge. I mean, it was like, "No, this is our tradition, this is what we're doing." So that when it came to Christmas nobody had budged, they had just been married not quite a year. They left town. They went to Kansas City, Missouri for Christmas.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: When they brought it up again next year, guess what, everybody was willing to compromise and move. And, so, for them it was like, "It wasn't bad having our first Christmas together just the two of us." And they felt like we just can't have this happen.
We can't go through this every year because it was tough. I mean they were getting phone calls, and manipulation, and all this kind of stuff, and the thing I kind of said earlier, "It might be grandma's last Christmas and we can't do that, she would just die." No, probably not, she is, probably, more flexible than you are.
Lindsay: Right.
Dr. Kim: So I think that was it. I think the thing we talked about, I had situations where the dad, and usually it's the dad giving the daughter money. And, I think, what that does it emasculates, I think in a way, the husband. Like, "You really can't provide well for my daughter so I'm going to supplement you."
And, so, cutting that off, I think, was a very important thing to do. We're going to, and the daughter is the one, he went with her, but the daughter told her dad, "I love you. I appreciate everything you've done but we can't do that anymore. We're going to make it on our, and we want your love, and care, and support, but we don't want your money anymore."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And then just other things where, I think, sometimes they do expect a couple just to fall right in like a Sunday dinners or something. "We always do this kind of stuff."
Being able to say, "We love coming, it's fun, but we're not going to come every Sunday. We're going to come every other Sunday, we're going to come one Sunday a month." Whatever works out best.
Those are tough, sometimes, but it allows you to establish your own identity as a couple. To get that separation from family of origin and for them beginning to see you have your own life. That may be hard for them, in some ways, but that's what marriage is. It's like you said, it's leaving, it's cleaving, it's building your own family, and that's the most important thing for sure.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm, yes, that's good. A couple of other ones I've seen it's just funny because it's like I've seen these recurring many times. But where the couple has to ask the in-laws please call, or text, or ask, before you come to our house, don't just show up, and that is surprisingly common.
I guess, surprising to me, my parents toned it down, but I don't know how that is. But surprising amount of in-laws who will just show up at that door, and expect to be not interrupting anything whatsoever.
Another is expecting to have free access to the grandchildren to do whatever, whenever. "So I want to take them to this. I want to take them to do that." And not really running that by the parents.
Dr. Kim: Asking the kids, a lot of times, before you ask the parents.
Lindsay: Oh, yes. Oh, no, I have seen that and it was not good.
Dr. Kim: No, it's not good. And what are you teaching the kid?
Lindsay: Yes, well, and then somebody is going to end up disappointed and I hope it's not the child because they're going to hold it over your head, whichever person disappointed them.
Dr. Kim: Exactly.
Lindsay: It's terrible. Yes, so those are a few things where it's like those are very okay boundaries to set. It's very normal and very acceptable to say, "Hey, if you have an idea with the kids? I love when you hang out with them, but I need you to ask me first. Just run it by me, I would not like to see them disappointed like that again.
So I need you to check with me first. I need to know that we're not busy that day. I need to know that we have the ability." Whatever thing it is. And, so, just setting that and I'm not sure how to enforce that one. How would you enforce that?
Dr. Kim: I think you ask first, like you were saying. And then if they do it again, I think, maybe one of the ways is you say no until they get it. Now, your kid is the variable in there, but hopefully, because the grandparents love the kid, again, you are not saying you can't see them. You're saying, "Let's just plan a little bit. You can see the kids three times a week if you want, but let's plan around what we're doing."
And I think that, and I think the dropping thing, I've seen that happen too, granddad drops by, the kids are there, "Hey, I'm going to take them to wherever." He didn't ask you, kids are already in his car, and what are you going to do in that situation? You mentioned the person that the dad bought them their first house, well, in this situation the dad kept a key.
Lindsay: Oh, yes.
Dr. Kim: "It's really my house and that's why I have a key, and I'll come in wherever I want to." Maybe not saying that but doing that.
Lindsay: That happened, yeah.
Dr. Kim: The last time it happened, the kids had spent the night out. Husband and wife were in bed on a Saturday morning, enjoying each other, guess who comes in? Dad!
Lindsay: Oh, no.
Dr. Kim: That's when they got the key back. And then the husband said, "We're either getting his key or we're selling this thing, or giving it to him, and getting out, we can't do this."
Lindsay: Yes, that's uncomfortable.
Dr. Kim: So maybe that'd make some people feel better that, "Well, they didn't cross that boundary."
Lindsay: Sure.
Dr. Kim: It was like, "Well, that was about the worst."
Lindsay: Oh, that's a rude awakening right there.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Well, I think those are good because I think sometimes if you're not sure if it's okay to go ahead and set that boundary, there's going to be a moment like that. That you get to where you're like, "Okay, we could have set the boundary a couple of incidents back."
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. And that's okay, sometimes, it's just helping us get to that point and how to do it. Especially if you're early in your marriage or if maybe you're later in marriage and you just let things go so long, that's harder too. That's why it's always better to nip things in the bud quicker. An issue develops that you guys need to address together, the sooner you do it the better.
Lindsay: Yes, I think that's good. And I think it's also you have to keep on it because things will change with different seasons like you're saying. Some of these things would never pop up until there are kids in the mix or until somebody moves, something changes, and suddenly you got to deal with it.
Dr. Kim: I was just thinking, you and I've talked, and we've talked, I think, at a team meeting about. And I think you and I were on the team with the teenagers and that is different. And, so, there may come a time, maybe, when they're in some of those tough teenagers that you're, "Hey dad, I'm putting him on the front porch, come and get him." So but then you made that decision.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: "I need a break, just a little break."
Lindsay: I may have done that a little bit before.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Because he's already been through it, he survived.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and I think most grandparents are going to jump and sometime that really is a way to help each other out. Calling your parents and say, "Hey, we need some alone time, can you pick the kids up?"
Lindsay: Absolutely.
Dr. Kim: Nothing wrong with that at all.
Lindsay: And then, also, let them know ahead of time, don't just assume. It goes both ways.
Dr. Kim: That's right.
Lindsay: But I think clear communication is always a win.
Dr. Kim: Always helps.
Lindsay: When spouses are coming from different backgrounds, what are some practical steps they can take to have a better relationship with their in-laws?
Dr. Kim: I think not writing them off. I think really deciding, pre-deciding that these are my in-laws and I want to love them as best I can.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So I think taking time to really try to understand them. Maybe if you understand a little more of what their family of origin was like it helps you understand why they're doing some things. Now, you may not like them, but it helps you understand what's their background. What is their cultural difference? Sometimes that happens and if you marry someone in a different culture, there's going to be some adjustments.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Some things that they may do very different than what you've done. So taking time to do that, but just because they're different doesn't mean that they are wrong.
So I think trying to understand them, spending time with them, and then are there some enjoyable things you can do together to enjoy?
Maybe the husband and the father-in-law both like cars. So car shows on, call your father-in-law and say, "Let's go hang out and have some coffee and go look at these cars." Just looking for ways to connect and get to know them better and build that relationship. I think you want to make that effort and then if you still need to set boundaries fine.
But I think the more we understand people maybe we're able to do some things without even having a set of boundary because you just the way you do things with them, and all that kind of thing.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, I think too, if you're the couple, whenever your parents, the in-laws honor a boundary you've done, lavish them with praise.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Reinforce how much that meant to you. How grateful you are that they heard you and did that.
Lindsay: Oh, yes, that's really good. That's a good precedent to set too. I think a couple of other things I can think of is with like family gatherings, holidays and stuff, are tough because there's usually a lot of planning, a lot of different opinions.
So one thing that I find helpful sometimes is to approach each person who is part of the planning or who you know has a stake in getting things together and say, "What are the most important things you want to see in this holiday?"
Like, "What are your top two or three things that would make this exactly what you hope for?"
Sometimes I'll do that with myself first and say, "What am I really looking for here?"
"I want to have enjoyable time with my family. What's going to facilitate that? And I don't want to be stressed. What's going to facilitate that?"
And, so, go to each person and, maybe not every single person, depending how many people, but the cooks in the kitchen, if you will. The people who are going to make it happen and define that, get on the same page, "And what's it going to take for us to work together, to make this thing that you're really dreaming of happen?"
Dr. Kim: That's good.
Lindsay: So there's that, but then there's also, I think, taking a step back and thinking about things in a little bit bigger perspective is always helpful, I will always advocate for that.
But in this situation, I think, there's a lot of times when I've heard these in-law horror stories of like, "Oh, they wanted to dress my children in these dumb outfits," or whatever. And it's like, "Okay, yes, that's annoying but how big of a deal is this?" If grandma buys everyone matching dumb suits, let her have it. If maybe there are some other things going on there, but just all these little things that can seem huge are, probably, not huge.
Dr. Kim: Yes, that's really good.
Lindsay: And sometimes you just need a little grace there.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I think, sometimes we get, too, in the habit of taking offense at things with a person and, so, everything they do bugs us. But I think that's right, look at the big picture. If every time grandma's got them she takes them for ice cream. Is that really something you want to fight? Maybe it is if you got a diabetic kid, obviously, yes.
But those other things you just go and just embrace, and be thankful that you've got someone that cares, someone else that cares for your kids. So I think changing your perspective. Because, I think, some grandparents probably, take some liberties that they shouldn't. And it depends, is it really disrupting your family?
Is it disrupting what you're trying to do with your kids?
Or is it just that, "They're bugging me." And if it's just, "Yeah, they're bugging me." Probably, just try to reframe your perspective on it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, we had, he's passed away now, but my grandpa, he was 90 or 91. We had the opportunity to spend more time with him in his last couple of years. And he just always wanted to take the kids for ice cream. Our kids were a little smaller at the time and I'm like, "They can't keep eating ice cream." But then you realize this is a chance they're not going to get back again.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: And, so, it was one of those things where I had to let it go. But, ultimately, they remember that and they loved it, it was really special.
Dr. Kim: Actually, I was going to ask you, I bet that that was one of the things they remember about him?
Lindsay: Oh, they had so much fun with him, yes, it was great.
Dr. Kim: Which is cool and you just don't want to rob your kid off that.
Lindsay: No, because it was unexpected that they would even get that much time. And, so, how dumb of an argument, "Just to say they can't have that much sugar."
Dr. Kim: Yes, it's interesting I had a family a couple of weeks ago and the wife was having a lot of trouble with her in-laws. And she just decided to reframe the way she looked at them and to see them as a blessing instead of, "These people, gosh, that woman grates on me."
Or, "He is so opinionated." Because the kids don't see them that way. I think that's what this lady said, "As much as it bugs me, my kids adore them, and they are great grandparents. And I know, yes, I'm there and I may have set a boundary, but a lot of times I got to get out of the way. Because it's me not them."
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And, I think, being willing to look at yourself that way, too. I loved your example of the granddad and kids. I mean, that is just great.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, yes, you wouldn't give them ice cream like that?
Lindsay: No, that's why it was so fun.
Dr. Kim: Yeah, exactly. I think maybe sometimes, as grandparents, we look for the things the parents won't let them know.
Lindsay: I have that on record, Dr. Kim, it's recorded. As parents, we have been suspecting that for a while. No, I think that's good. I think it's good to step back and say like, "It's, probably, going to be okay, whatever it is." If it's not, then you got to address it, but it's going to be okay.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely, they're not taking them to buy drugs. They're not taking them to, "You're a teen, it's time you learned how to drink scotch, buddy."
Lindsay: Oh, no. Probably, somebody out there… don't do that.
Dr. Kim: No, and I've seen-
Lindsay: Oh, my.
Dr. Kim: ...I've seen those things happen. And, so, those are the things, yes, you say. Sorry, that's one experience you're not going to have the memory of with granddad.
Lindsay: I mean, that's a true in-law nightmare and we're not talking about like, "Oh, I let the baby stay up for 30 minutes late." We're talking about something actually dangerous, that's a different situation.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: But with reasonable in-laws or with in-laws that you could, probably, build some trust and have fun with them, and just thank the Lord that you have them.
Dr. Kim: I think as a grandparent, you want to honor the parents. I think our kids trust us to do things with the kids and to have fun with them, we're not going to do anything harmful. But I would never take advantage of that. I would never to do something with them that I know their parents wouldn't want them doing.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, that's important.
Dr. Kim: That does not include ice cream.
Lindsay: I think that's fair. Yes, that is important and, I think, that's a great thing to work toward, too, is that kind of openness and trust?
Dr. Kim: Yeah, what I want people to see out of this is that you're, probably, going to have problems with your in-laws. There's going to be things they do that buck you, but don't write them off.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: With God's help and I think this is a great prayer, and God has honored this with some other people in my life. Where I just pray, "God, you know I do not like being around this person. Help me see their heart, help me see them through your eyes." And He does.
I mean, He ended up making me like this guy that I could not stand, but I had to be on board with Him. And, so, I just started praying that, and all of a sudden, I didn't, he wasn't bugging me like he used to. And, so, I think you want that too.
Lindsay: Yes, that's awesome. That's great. And, I think, one thing that helps frame that perspective, for me, is at some point, I don't know when it clicked in. But I realized like we're going to be together for a long time, hopefully. I hope that we all have a long life. And, so, realizing, I got married at 21 that's that gives us a lot of years, ideally to be adults together.
I was looking at my parents with their in-laws, their sibling in-laws, and how many years they got, and just, really, great quality relationships that will just continue for a long time. So you have to make decisions knowing, "If you could potentially be in my life for a lot of years, I want to make decisions that help that process."
Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely, and just being intentional about that, making that a priority.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm, yes, well, Dr. Kim, this has been a helpful conversation. Of course, feel free to write us if you've got some situations that we did not touch on. I'm sure there are all kinds of experiences out there, and we know this advice is not one-size-fits-all.
There's all kinds of scenarios, but I think a lot of the principles that we've talked about today can help in a lot of situations. And as we always say about everything start with prayer. But, Dr. Kim, to close out the conversation, is there any final piece of advice you have for us today?
Dr. Kim: Well, if you were wondering if you're the only one that has in-law issues, now you know you're not. And I guess what I would want is to know, to look at that, pray, get together on the same page as a couple, and then present the boundary.
But in the big picture, "How do we make these relationships as healthy as they can be?" And there may be some limits, I get that. But from your perspective as a couple, "How do we make our relationship with our in-laws as healthy as it can be?"
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I think that's what God would want us do. And I know there's, some people are right and are saying, "It'll never be healthy." And I get that because maybe there's a drug, well, all kinds of things could be in there. But if that is possible, do everything you can to make that happen.
Lindsay: Mm, yes, that's a great word. Well, make sure that you guys are following us everywhere we are all over socials because we have just continual little tidbits of advice and help.
That's also a great way to DM us, let us know your questions, let us know what we didn't cover, today, that you need to have an answer to. We are always available there on Facebook, Instagram, and of course, Dr. Kim is on TikTok doing the challenges.
Dr. Kim: Hey, and, also, if you've enjoyed today's episode, would you just take a minute to leave us a rating and review. Leaving it on iTunes, leaving your review there is one of the best ways to make the show more visible to other couples, other people, people who haven't seen it yet.
I know we always assume, sometimes, that everybody knows about it, but they don't and we would love for them to do.
There's a lot of marriage content out there and we're passionate about helping people have God's plan for marriage. And that's really the core of what we want to do in this podcast.
So you can help us make that happen by bringing more people to us. You can find the link in our show notes, you can to the review page, and we really appreciate your help. Just thanking in advance for taking the minute or two to do that, we appreciate it.
Lindsay: Yes, and we do appreciate you sharing your time with us today and listening, tuning-in, have a great day, and do something awesome for your marriage today.
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[00:45:39] <Outro>