Overcoming Physical Obstacles to A Great Sex Life | Ep. 542

[00:00:00] < Intro >

Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host, Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship. 

Well, whether it is illness, aging, or another physical issue, there are some physical barriers that can really keep couples from enjoying great sex together. So today we're going to address several of the most common physical barriers to a great sex life in your marriage. To help you find ways to address them and enjoy God's gift of sex in your marriage. 

A quick search of physical issues that affect sex life tells us that things like; hormonal changes, menopause, testosterone levels, those have both physical and emotional side effects. There's erectile dysfunction, there's low libido. Being overweight might affect your ability to get into some sexual positions and libido as well. Medications, there are side effects. And then we have things like depression, anxiety, illness, or disability. Dr. Kim, what else would you add to that list?

Dr. Kim: Well, it's interesting, I was looking, yesterday, through, and I found a study that had been done from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. And they said, "By the year 2030, as many as 170 million people in the United States, more than half of all Americans, will be living with at least one chronic medical condition, illness or disability that can easily derail their sex life."

But then they also said, "It doesn't have to." So it falls right in what we're talking about, but that number surprised me. That there are so many people that really do deal with that because I think it's something a lot of people don't talk about. 

And, so, the things that you listed are all good. I also thought about, along with that, just that chronic pain that can come, that people have to deal with and how that certainly can affect your sex life. A lot of empathy for people with that. 

Stress is something else I think that definitely does affect our sex life. I was talking to a lady, that's a head of a Christian school here, and she was just talking about the difference in the stress she sees in kids, today, that she didn't see even 10 years ago in school.

And, so, I think that goes all the way down to our kids and all the way up to us. And then sometimes there's intellectual disabilities like autism, some things like that. Where people don't really get the social cues, and how does that work with them in the sex relationship? 

So it's a really broad area that covers a lot of different things. But the bottom line is how do we best work through that? Is there a way to embrace God's gift for sex that He's given us? Or what needs to happen in those situations?

Lindsay: Yes, you're right, it's pretty broad. There's a ton of different things there, so it's not like this is a one-size-fits-all by any means.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: But what we're getting at is that this is a lot that's not talked about very much. There are a lot of physical factors. Some might be things you could deal with or get checked on, others are not. But in all of those, there are probably some ways to handle it together.

Dr. Kim: Well, and I didn't realize how big a scope it was. Because I was just thinking back through all the years I've done in counseling, very few times has that been an issue. And, well, a lot of them have been with the wife and it's been a pain issue, and they've been able to work with their gynecologist, and get that taken care of. 

The guys that I've worked with, where it's ED, they have been able to go to urologists. Get checked out and a lot of them have been able to work through that, but that's been minor. And, so, I think it's an area that I probably will see more in the counseling room. And it's an area that affects a lot of people, and that we need to talk about. Because people aren't talking about it. 

Lindsay: Yes, well, and I know you've mentioned that couples were less willing to talk about their sex life, in the past, when you were earlier in your counseling. And haven't you seen that change? I feel like I've heard you reference that.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. Yes, it's one of the things that just naturally seems to come up. Before it would come up, and I'd say something because I'd developed that with something that we need to talk about just because of the other things we were talking about. And there's always a little pause and then once they got into it, it was go. But I think people are a lot more open with that now and are a lot more comfortable with it.

Lindsay: Yes, and I'm wondering, too, I mean, one of the reasons we're addressing this topic is because we do get questions. So one of the great things about being an online ministry is that people are willing to say things they might not say out loud. Which is great because then we can start dealing with them. 

So probably the proportion of questions we see, through email and anonymous questions and things like that, is a little higher because of that. So we do get a fair amount of questions about that. So it's something that's great to get on the table.

Dr. Kim: Yes, it's not something you probably discuss with somebody when you go out to dinner with another couple. And, so, you are going to do probably in a counseling situation, or with a physician. They know that we try to help people in all areas of marriage. And, so, they feel safe coming to us with questions like that.

Lindsay: Yes, so we've got a lot on the table. Ranging from disability, intellectual disability, illness, libido, hormones, overweight, anything in that. With all of these, what is a great first step for a couple to take here?

Dr. Kim: Well, I think, what is your problem? And a lot of times people avoid going to a doctor or they just don't go. And, so, that's one of the things that I talk to couples about. When there's something along this line would be to see a doctor. Is there anything, medically, that can be done to help? 

If it's ED, there are medications to try. If you're overweight, maybe a doctorate can help you in losing some weight. The medications you are on, the doctor can say, "Yes, this one could affect your libido or it could affect something. And, so, we can effectively switch you to this medication."

Depression, anxiety, definitely with medication and counseling. So I mean, I would try to help them see, "What have you done and what have you not done?" And make sure that we cover all those bases. And then we can see what's left there, as far as counseling need. 

But I think the first step is to just see have someone availed themselves of all the help that is there. And a lot of times counseling needs to go along with it, anyway, because if that's something that's been an important part of your life or you want that to be an important part of your life. And because of one of these reasons it is not or hasn't been what you want it to be. 

Well, then, the emotional things that can go along with that, and counseling can certainly help. As you're working on that, and to connect together to make that sex life what you hoped it would be and want it to be, and what God designed it to be.

Lindsay: Yes, those are some really simple things, but sometimes it's not easy to do this simple thing.

Dr. Kim: I think that sometimes people just don't, and as guys, I think we're so much better. I mean, Nancy and I were doing a recording yesterday and we were just talking about ED. And Nancy made the comment, and she said something like, "It seems like on the sports stations you get an ED commercial, every other commercial." So it's, obviously, more talked about than it used to be. 

Lindsay: Yes.

Dr. Kim: But some of them, probably, maybe not be as talked about, but we need to.

Lindsay: I think we need to, and I wonder if part of it is I know sometimes we just accept. Like, "Okay, this is what I'm dealing with and it's just my cross to bear."

Dr. Kim: Yes. 

Lindsay: I mean, it just makes me think about like in my house, I had this bathroom door that squeaked every morning, it would. I was pulling my hair out, "I'm so irritated with this bathroom door squeaking." I'm just thinking, "This house, ugh, I love my house, I got to deal with the squeaky door, I just got to deal with it."

And finally I'm like, "Wait a minute, no, I just have to go to Walmart and get a can of WD-40." And it took me about two minutes to do all the doors and the entire downstairs. You don't have to put up with this squeaky door, you just don't have to do it. 

So I think it's that step of saying, "Wait a minute, this is an actual thing that I could take a step to deal with, I don't have to put up with it." Or even the question of, "Do I have to put up with it?" Maybe not, it's worth asking about.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, what a great analogy, yes, exactly. Because I think we all have things in our lives that we just put up with, instead of doing something about it. And I think it's also something that a couple, we talk so much about being on the same team, communication, this is certainly an area of that. 

Because maybe one of you is affected in some way and the other isn't. And, so, how do we work together? "How do I support my husband or my wife as they go through this to get to where we both want this to be?" And I think you said, too. It's interesting Nancy had talked to some women, about the book that we're writing together and the sexual part of it. 

And one lady that it's probably about her age mate or maybe a little bit younger. Just said, "Well, five or six years ago we decided sex wasn't going to be a part of our marriage anymore." And it wasn't like there was any, as far as we know, reason that. And, so, we just talked about what that does for us as a couple, the closeness, and how that unites us in a way that God designed. 

And, so, if there's any way that we can continue to make that a part of our life, I think it's important to do that. Because besides the physical pleasure, there are a lot of other things that go into a good sex life, and the closeness, and all the things that it gives us.

Lindsay: Yes, that's true, that's an interesting thought. And I think there are probably a lot of couples in that category, and they're probably not talking about it either. But you would say you think they're just missing out.

Dr. Kim: I think so, and sometimes we make assumptions. I had a couple, years and years ago, but she just felt like her husband wasn't pursuing her. And, so, she just accepted that's the way it is and, "I guess he doesn't want to have sex anymore." They never talked about it, and he ends up having an affair. 

Lindsay: Oh, wow. 

Dr. Kim: And, so, then she said, "I guess sex was important to him." Instead of them pursuing it together, I didn't talk to him so I don't know what his perspective was. Maybe he felt like, "Well, my little wife doesn't want to have sex anymore." And, so, it's just something that was designed to be in the marriage relationship. It's not right to ever go outside of the marriage in that. So that's where I come from.

And if there's some issues that can't be overcome, okay. But it's worth exploring everything to have that. And as we were talking yesterday in this interview, I think, what most people that I know, that I talk to, that are in our stage of life, that have pursued the sex relationship throughout, it becomes better in a lot of different ways, over time. 

When you're young, I mean, Nancy said in this interview, she said, "It's just all hormones, when you're first married, and young, and it's just all that." But then there really comes a spiritual depth to it, there are some things that happen, over time. 

I interviewed in the podcast that many of you may have listened to with Jennie and Levi Lusko. And Levi was saying the same thing up to their 19 years of marriage and how that has continued to grow, and how important it's, for them, to do everything they can to continue to make that happen because they see the benefit of it.

Lindsay: Yes, oh, absolutely, I think so. So we'll go back to my silly analogy because I tell you, I have WD-40 and I feel like a million bucks. I was calling family members, "Listen to what I did." I took a step. But if I had just closed the door and said, "I'm not going into that room anymore because that squeak irritates me." I'm closing the door to a whole section of the house; you know what I mean? 

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Lindsay: And same in our relationship, if you just shut it down you're not getting all that you can out of it. And, so, I'm curious, let's take, for example, the couple that you said you had in counseling, they never talked about it. She thought it just didn't matter to him. Why would a couple never talk about this? Because I know most couples don't.

Dr. Kim: Well, a lot of times when couples do talk about it, it's in a time of frustration. And, so, there may be anger it's like, "You did, or you didn't, or you won't." Or whatever that goes into. And, so, I think that shuts it down a lot of times because then they're almost afraid to bring it up. "Well, every time we talk about sex, we argue. Because we're talking about frequency or something like that and we're arguing about that." And two things that I've seen over the years, and I think a lot of couples are getting better at that, they don't talk about much as their spiritual relationship and their sexual relationship. 

Lindsay: Hmm.

Dr. Kim: And I think those are two very important areas, that we need to talk about and how do we grow spiritually together? 

How do we go sexually together? Because of the way God designed us, God designed us for that to be a part of our lives. And, definitely, procreation is part of that, obviously, but He wouldn't have made it as enjoyable or made our bodies to be sensitive in certain areas if we weren't supposed to enjoy it. And, so, that, for Nancy and I, was always, as long as we can, we want that to be a part of our lives. 

Lindsay: Yes, I think so. I mean, it could have been just completely utilitarian. It's not and it's enjoyable.

Dr. Kim: There could be a little manual that says, "Do this, you'll have a child. When you're ready for another child, do this again." But no, that's not the way it works.

Lindsay: It's not like that. People seem to figure it out without any manual and just make it happen. So why aren't we doing that in our marriage? 

Dr. Kim: Yes. 

Lindsay: I think it's a great point, too, it's speaking out of frustration or out of the fear of frustration. I know a lot of us, a lot of couples, there are a lot of topics we avoid because one time we tried to talk about it and it didn't go well. So that just means, "No, I'm not doing that again." But I love that you're really reminding us that it's a team approach. And you're so good at reminding us about that because it's; "How can we?"

"What can we do?"

"What are we going to do to help this?"

Instead of, "Why aren't you?"

"Why do you?" Those questions aren't helpful, but the team approach is very helpful.

Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. I mean, if say it is a doctor appointment and you can say, "I will pray for you. I'll go to the appointment with you. I'll do whatever I can to support you in this. What do you need me to do?"  

It's not like, "Go get fixed, and then come back, and we'll have sex." It's like, "How do I come alongside you and walk through this with you? Because it's going to benefit both of us, in the big picture."

Lindsay: Yes, that's great, that's really good. We did that, I mean, it was just with a routine physical because I am a little bit of a white-coat phobic. I'm a little scared to going to doctors and I think Brian knew that. But we know we're in our forties now, and we should go for a physical. 

And, so, when we talked about it and he said, "You know what I'll do, when I call to schedule mine? I'll just schedule you one too." And, gosh, that just took such a weight off me because I just couldn't seem to get it together to make that call myself. 

But he called, we went and had appointments back-to-back. And we actually sat together in the room before the labs, before I had to go get the blood draw. And it was such a helpful thing, for me, because when I just have it on my own and I'm thinking, "I know I need to. I just don't want to, I'm dreading it."

But when it was like, "Hey, how can we both acknowledge we need to do this?" And then it took a weight off my shoulders, and we took care of it, and everything was fine. And, so, it was such a relief.

Dr. Kim: What a great story, and I just love Brian doing that. I mean, he knew that was hard for you, and he just came up with a solution that was really easy.

Lindsay: It was so easy.

Dr. Kim: But it took him probably 10 more seconds in the conversation, making the appointment. 

Lindsay: Exactly.

Dr. Kim: And then you got to go together with him and be there for each other. So, yes, that's a great example of what it means to come alongside each other. To have empathy with your spouse and to do what you can to help with that.

Lindsay: I think so, too, and I think there are such silly things that would prevent that from happening. There were times, in our marriage, where I thought, "I think that's something a woman's supposed to do. I think a woman's supposed to call and make her appointments or make even her spouse's appointments."

For some reason, I had this in my head. Maybe people do that, but that's just not sort of my strength, whatever. I'm not a detailed person. And, so, to just get over those preconceived notions, "Why wouldn't he do that?" That we don't have to put more pressure on ourselves.

Dr. Kim: Sure, it's just looking for opportunities, things that we talk about, to help your spouse touchpoint. I mean, that meant a lot to you, that he did that for you.

Lindsay: Yes, it did. 

Dr. Kim: And, so, I think when we're aware and look at those things, and we're always looking for things to try to come alongside our spouse, that they're there all the time.

Lindsay: I think so, and that's such a great point in this conversation. Because with all of these things, even if one person is struggling, it is affecting both. And, so, that's fair to share that burden together.

Lindsay: Yes, absolutely.

[00:17:54] < Music >

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[00:18:58] < Music >

Lindsay: So we've talked about going to the doctor, counseling, all these things. Are there any other things you would add to address the issues?

Dr. Kim: We've probably talked about the main, communication, obviously, and we've talked about that of how important it is. I mean, you got to talk about it. And, so, it goes back to why we didn't, and you said that, and I talked about people just fight and those kinds of things. And it may just be saying, "Hey, we are struggling in this area. I'm struggling with this. I want this to be better, let's talk about it."

"Will you help me work through this, and let's see what the next step would be for us?" That kind of communication. And when you're inviting your spouse in to walk through that with you. Instead of pointing the finger at each other, accusing each other, or all those kinds of things that we can get into, which does nothing to help your sex life. 

And I think, guys, when we do that to our wives, I mean our wives, their best sexual organ is their mind. 

And, so, when we put these other thoughts in there because we are frustrated or something. Well, that's not helping her, at all, and the situation and you've got to talk about it as a team.

Lindsay: Yes, absolutely. I think so for sure. Yes, and there's going to be a lot of mental clutter around that. There's going to be, maybe, feel some guilt, maybe, feel like it's your fault. And with a lot of these things we're talking about, it is not. You're not at fault. You don't need to feel guilty for it or ashamed of it. And even going to a doctor or counselor, they deal with this every day, it is not going to shock them.

Dr. Kim: That's a good point. Yes, the doctor is not going to go, "Oh, my gosh, I've never heard that before." The doctor, he or she, is going to help you.

Lindsay: Yes, and, so, just go ahead and let go of that because there's help available. And you need to go ahead and be willing to ask for it, so that you can receive it.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely.

Lindsay: So once we've talked about all that. What about some physical disabilities or changes that will not be resolved?

Dr. Kim: Yes, and I know that happens. I would say there are lot of ways to have intimacy. I mean, just cuddling, and hugging, and kissing. Couples, because of some physical limitations for one or the other, that they may manually please each other. There's just something about, "How do we get close and how do we get intimate? Even if we can't have intercourse, what can we do that's going to draw us closer, together, in a sexual way?"

And, so, I think it's another thing to talk about, "Well, yes, this is painful." I don't think this would be, "Let's try this way of becoming close." And. again, it's figuring out for you something that works for the two of you. 

But I think the way God created us, is we have these touch receptors all over our body, and certainly we have those in the genital area. But there is a lot to be said from just that cuddling, and hugging, and letting those touch receptors get you ignited just because you're close to each other. Just because your two bodies are close to each other, whether there's intercourse or not. So it, again, figuring out what you can do, what you can't do, and then making the best of what you have, whatever the situation is.

Lindsay: Yes, sure. So I love that you're saying there are other ways. So it sounds like you're saying sex does not have to mean just intercourse.

Dr. Kim: Right, yes, and one of the books I really like because it's illustrated, is Celebration of Sex by Dr. Douglas Rosenau, R-O-S-E-N-A-U. In it there are some ways to be sexual with each other, without having intercourse. So something like that and he's a Christian, and it's very tasteful, it's not some weird thing or far out thing. 

Dr. Kim: Yes, so, I mean, finding a resource like that can give you some ideas that, maybe, you haven't thought of before. And, again, it's working together. If one of you saying, "Okay, we ought to order that, we ought to order that." Well the other one needs to order it or something like that.

Lindsay: Yes, it's a great resource for sure. And I think it's a great one for anyone who knows that there's some information out there, but they don't have, yet. It's just really explanatory.

Dr. Kim: Which is a good point. I think sometimes, as guys, we feel like we're supposed to know it all because we're a guy and we don't. And, so, I think the more we can learn because, as a guy, you've got to become an expert on your wife, and what she likes, and what she doesn't like, and her body. And you don't learn that just because you're a guy. You learn it by communicating with your spouse, and learning, and growing, and seeing that's okay to grow. Read the Song of Solomon, that is as intimate as you can get.

Lindsay: Yes, I love that you just said, "You don't know that just because you're a guy." You're not actually born with all that built in.

Dr. Kim: No, and we want to act like, and maybe we outgrow that, I think I did. But in high school it's like, "I know everything about that."

Lindsay: Oh, gosh. 

Dr. Kim: When you know nothing at all. So I think that carries over and there's so much to learn about, from a guy's standpoint, about a woman, and her body, and especially your wife. That you don't know unless you're communicating with the person you're married to.

Lindsay: Yes, and that's great. It reminds me of what the Luskos were telling you about how sex life gets better, and I think that's a big part of it. You got to know each other better, that's a huge part of it.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, yes, I mean really when we look back at Nancy and I had first married, our first year of marriage at 20 years old. It was, it was definitely hormone driven and we didn't know much about each other. 

I mean, sex was great then, but it has changed and matured. Physical is still great, but there's so much more depth to it, at this stage of life, than it was back then. And we've seen that grow throughout our marriage, there are bumps along the way, for sure. But over the period of time, yes, you have some times that nothing was working because we weren't working, basically.

Lindsay: Yes, well, and we are at 19 years, too, and it's just funny to think about how much we thought it would just happen. We thought it would be just some romantic scene that fell into place. Because that is what really our culture does predispose us to think, that it would just work out without ever having to be discussed. 

And, so, I love that we're just being really open about the fact that you do have to talk about it and that's a normal thing to do. 

Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. Yes, it's funny, I think it's a good point, because sometimes we do think, well, it's something we just do. I mean, the animals do pretty good on it. Well, the animals don't have souls like we do. They don't have, God didn't create them in the same way, and a lot of those is just for procreation, I guess. So it is taking the time to look at the two of you and talk about it.

Lindsay: Yes, and I think, too, it wasn’t saying that like... I know for probably most couples, I know for us, premaritally you would think that it would fall into place. Because you do have those hormones raging and you're trying to stay pure. And, so, you're like, "Man, it seems like it would just be really simple, to just have great sex all the time, in marriage." But the reality is the hormones do taper off, die down. You start to see other things more like stressors and, so, that balances out. 

And, so, it's easy to see why we would think that it would fall into place when we're on the early side of it. And then once things shake out that changes for everyone I've ever talked to. I won't say every couple, but every couple I've ever met.

Dr. Kim: No, I agree, and it's interesting how you said that because I do think the hormones are there and, so, all that is there. And then as that begins to, or whatever... I think it's like for a husband and a wife, the husband sees his wife, early on, probably, she's having the same sex drive he does. 

Because at that point, if you have waited, it's like, "Wow, we're going to enjoy this as much as we can." And then the reality, for a woman sets in, of that her mind really is her greatest sex organ. And all of a sudden, "He was not very kind to me, and now he wants to have sex."

And, so, then you have to begin to deal with, "Okay, how do we make this work and what really does keep us both desiring each other? And keep that as an important part of our life."

Lindsay: Yes, and that's important to talk about because, I think, it can be really frustrating to think, "Okay, things were good, why is it not like that now?" And there are a lot of factors that go into that, but I think it's important to get that on the table.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. We talk about it a lot, of what a woman has, too. And I think there are guys that struggle with things too. It seems like, from a counseling perspective, the vast majority is with the wife, in those situations, because of just how a woman is wired. But I know guys can have some issues, too, so I'm not leaving those out or saying those aren't important either.

Lindsay: Yes, totally. And, so, some of this, I'm wondering, how much does our mindset about our physical factors play in? I'm thinking about after having babies, when I was feeling really self-conscious about how my body changed. Our bodies do change for various reasons. It could be any number of things. How much do you think our mindset about that is going to impact our sex life?

Dr. Kim: I think women are more concerned about than others and that's just being observant of Nancy. I mean, just when we take photos and I think, "God, that's a great picture of us." And she sees one little hair out of place on her or something like that. 

So women are much more self-conscious than their husbands are. And for us, as our husbands, we need to continue to affirm our wives and tell her how attracted we are to her, and how beautiful she is. Because, over time, we all change but I see beauty in Nancy. I think she's beautiful outside, but I've seen an inside beauty that I didn't really see much of when we first got married because we hadn't lived that long together. 

And, so, we need to continue to affirm our wives because, in our culture, it's tough being a woman. Now, all this stuff is thrown at you, all the time, of how you should look or how you shouldn't look. And what you should wear and what your body should look like. And really what you want it to be is to know that your husband loves you, is attracted to you, cherishes you. 

I had a guy tell me, say this, in counseling not that long ago, and she was talking about the way her body had changed. I think they had three children. And he said, "Anything, I look at that I think about how much I love you and that you were willing to carry our children, and bring those children to us."

He said, "That's a beautiful thing to me." 

And you could just see her whole countenance change, as he said that. It's like, "I don't have to worry about that anymore because he sees it differently." 

And, so, that's where the communication comes in. And it's okay to tell your husband, "I don't feel as good about my body as I used to." And as a husband then to affirm her. Because guys, we don't look that great all the time either. It's not like we're atlas at 20 and we stay atlas for the rest of our lives or something like that, we have changed too. 

I just think we don't think about that as much as our wives do. I mean, I want to be fit for Nancy. I want to be healthy for Nancy. I want to be healthy in a way that our sex life can continue our whole marriage. But other than that, it's not like I'm self-conscious about if I get a wrinkle, or if I get a stretch mark, or if I get something like that. It's like, "Okay, so..." While a woman becomes very self-conscious of those things. 

Lindsay: It can be, there are a lot of different levels of that for sure. And that's something, for me, I've battled to a place where understanding the context of how important our body is has changed a lot because of my theology. Because I've come to understand that our body is what God gives us, in order to live. So like if we don't have it we're not alive. 

And, so, for me, understanding that, and we did that whole series on stewardship of our physical, mental, emotional, spiritual health, over the summer. 

For me that has helped put things in perspective, it's to look at it and say, "You know what? I didn't pick this. This is what God gave me, it's a gift. And where would I be without it?"

That, to me, has helped shape things and, so, that's important. But I know for different people there are all different levels of how important that is. But the reason I mention my perspective is because my perspective has changed. 

I used to be a lot more self-conscious. And, so, I would like for anyone who's listening who is there to know that you don't have to stay there. Because I think there's a lot of freedom you can find from that.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, and God created us, each one, perfect. God didn't create you and say, "Darn, I made a mistake."

Lindsay: Yes. 

Dr. Kim: And He loves you and the person you're married to loves you. And, so, it's easy to be hard on yourself and you don't need to be. And just accepting who you are and rejoicing in that, there's a lot to be said for that.

Lindsay: I think so. And I think the more you can start to say, "Hey, God made me. God made me, He made me on purpose. And, so, who am I to tell Him He did it wrong?"

Dr. Kim: Yes, exactly.

Lindsay: Yes, so that's an important part of the mindset, for sure. So moving forward, one thing I'd like to wrap up with. What are some ways to stay close and to look forward, not backward, in the sexual relationship?

Dr. Kim: I think, for us, and we got into this, of realizing at some point, maybe it was 10 or 15 years into marriage, that our sex life is better than it was back then. And I think that we both clicked about the same time that this is something that can continue to grow, and just having that mindset is helpful. 

And then you want to do some of the things that we do to bond ourselves, with each other, especially, the things we do before marriage, that don't include intercourse. Things like hugging, and kissing, and cuddling, and putting your arm around each other. 

Those kind of things that bond us together are things that we need to continue to do on a daily basis. Because when we don't do that, it's like, "We haven't even touched for 20 days and now you want to have sex." Instead of just continuing to cultivate the way God made us, so we can look forward in the sexual relationship.

And knowing that if there are bumps in the road, as we go ahead, that for most of them there's going to be an answer for. And I know there are exceptions, but most of them have been there. And, together, you're going to do whatever you can to help your sex life continue to be part of your married life throughout your whole marriage and, so, if we come to that...

And a lot of people bring baggage into marriage, and sometimes that baggage continues to be a problem. Maybe for that it's time to get counseling and work through those things, and let that go. Because in marriage, what God designed sex in marriage is very different than the world tells us or sex outside of marriage. 

And, so, sometimes just making that transition to this and not bringing guilt, or shame, or any of those into it. To see this really is an incredible gift that God gave us. And to know that if we've had struggles in our sexual relationship, that doesn't mean we have to struggle the rest of our life. 

Just to say, "Let's learn from this, what do we learn? Do we need to get some help? Do we need to go to counseling? Do we need to go to a doctor?" And let's move forward with this and let's work on improving it, instead of just giving up.

Lindsay: Yes, that's a really good, that's a great place for us to land on this. So I love that you mentioned the book Celebration of Sex, we'll have the link to that in the show notes. But are there any other books or other resources you'd recommend on this?

Dr. Kim: I did a little research, and I haven't read these. But I found a few that I thought were really good, especially, with the disability thing. There's a book called Ultimate Guide to Sex and Disability: For All of Us Who Live with Disabilities, Chronic Pain, and Illness. And I think that was a good book that I saw. 

And then there was a real simple, and it's even in a comic book style. But it's written by an author who does have disabilities. It's called a Quick and Easy Guide to Sex and Disability. And then I found a website, Better Health Channel, it's what it's called, and they have a lot of stuff on disability and sexuality. So there are some good resources out there. 

Lindsay: Yes. 

Dr. Kim: Now, with anything we say here, I want to put the disclaimer is that they may or may not be Christian-based. But I think when you're talking about the body and disabilities, there's some really good information out there.

Lindsay: Yes, that's awesome. And it's really great to point to those, too, because, like you said, people are not asking a ton about that in person. So these are probably some great places to turn to.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely.

Lindsay: Yes, that's really great. Well, do you have any final piece of advice, for us, before we leave this topic today?

Dr. Kim: Well, we all have some obstacles, often, on our sex life. I don't think there's any couple that hadn't had to work through with things. Physical barrier is just another thing that we want to try to work through. 

And, so, what I would just say is that if you work through those, and your sex life is good, now, just continue to work on it and enjoy it. And if you've hit a wall or you've hit a bump in the road. Use this as a catalyst to get you guys into some conversations about, "What can we do?"

"How do we get back to what we had?"

Or "How do we get to do something better than we've ever had, in our marriage?"

Lindsay: Oh, that's so good. Yes, that's great. This is your sign, if you've been waiting for a little nudge, this is the time. Well, thank you for sharing all of your wisdom and insight with us. And I hope and pray this conversation has been encouraging and helpful.

Thanks for sharing your time with us today. If you need anything from us, you can always contact us info@awesomemarriage.com. We answer each and every email, and we love to chat with you, connect with you, pray with you. Make sure you're following us over on Facebook, and on Instagram, or you can get in touch with us. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage, today. 

[00:38:09] < Outro >

Announcer: Thanks for listening to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the Ministry of Awesome Marriage and produced by Lindsay Few, with music by Noah Copeland. 

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