Our Favorite Ways to Celebrate Christmas | Ep. 537
[00:00:00] < Intro >
Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host, Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.
The Christmas season is so special it's like none other. There are so many things that go into the season, all in an effort to celebrate Jesus's birth. So today we're going to talk about how we handle some of the challenges, and also how we make the most of this season.
So, Dr. Kim, I just want to start with something really fun. How are you seeing God at work and what is He teaching you through this season?
Dr. Kim: I think He's been teaching me the last few years and maybe the year that we had Christmas that was so weird, the Covid year of 2020. When a lot of things that we usually do at Christmas weren't around, but just to slow down.
Because there were parts of that year that I really missed some things, and then there are other things I didn't miss. And there's other things that I thought, "What we're doing just with family and being close together, is really special."
So I think that helped me see something I've heard and known, and done better some years than the other. But really I think the last couple of two, three years just slowing down, to pause to be countercultural. To focus on Jesus and to realize that what we're celebrating is a really big deal.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I mean, this is like God sent His son into the world for us to show us His love, and eventually to die for us, and to show us how to live our lives. And, so, just stopping to really just embrace that and just immerse yourself in that. To me, there's an awe and a wonder there that beats any lights, or any production, or anything like that. It is just the real truth of what this really is. If this little baby was our savior, and we love all the little nativity scenes, I love all that kind of stuff, man, this changed the world.
Lindsay: Hmm, gosh, that's good. That's really good. I have a similar thing that I'm a person who loves traditions and I kind of want to do them all. But that's actually really stressful to try to do them all. And even through different seasons with our kids and different circumstances, like you're saying, the past couple of years being a little different.
I feel like I've realized and learned, been learning, I should say, that those things are all good but even if they don't happen or if they don't go off as we plan. That it's still a really worthy celebration, and it's still meaningful. And it still is just as meaningful and special as anything could be, without all the toppings and trimmings, and all the extras that I'm tempted to keep adding on.
Dr. Kim: Yes, as you were saying that, I was just thinking, and there are times I probably have done that. "We didn't get to do that thing this year and, so, it ruined my Christmas." Well, the only thing that really would ruin Christmas is if God hadn't sent Jesus.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I mean, really. So the other things are things that, and I get it, I love tradition. I mean, we have our traditions, our kids love our traditions, our grandkids love our traditions, all those kind of things are so meaningful and fun, and we look forward to.
But I think what we've learned, I mean, there were a couple of things that we did we couldn't do during Covid, that we'd enjoyed. But we also decided that doesn't have to be part of our Christmas moving forward.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And it freed up some more time to be with each other or to spend time with God or things like that.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: Or to do something else fun.
Lindsay: Yes, because there are plenty of fun things to do.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: We did that last year; we never went on an official Christmas lights drive. We saw them in passing but we never loaded up, on purpose, put on the music. And I just kept meaning to and I'm like, "Gosh, I really want to, I love doing that." And it just turned out that by the end of it, it's like, "You know what, we didn't do that but we did some other things that we love and that's enough, it's okay."
Dr. Kim: It's okay if you don't check every single box, every year.
Lindsay: Every box.
Dr. Kim: Yes, that used to be a big deal with us when our kids were little, and we've done some with our grandkids. But, oh, my gosh, that was a big part of looking at Christmas lights.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And usually we'd go eat somewhere and then go look at the lights. Sometimes Nancy and I would've hot cocoa or whatever and it was just fun.
Lindsay: That was everything. It was get some hot chocolate, hop in the car.
Dr. Kim: But when your kids get to an age and you're having to pay them to go with you. Then you think, "Maybe that tradition is over."
Lindsay: Maybe it's time to move on, exactly. And I think that's some of it, too, it's just giving myself permission to say, "You know what, we don't have to continue forever, that was good for then."
Dr. Kim: So my kids will tell that, and I don't think I did it this long. But part of our deal was on Christmas morning, we lived in a two-story house, that they would have to sit. I had this deal, I had to have the Christmas tree lights on before they came down, and music playing, and everything. So they had to sit at the top of the stairs till then.
Well, they both say I made them do it all the way through high school. I don't think I made them do it that long, but I know there was the time that the whole time they were sitting on the stairs, they were rolling their eyes, so they were definitely older. When they were little it was excitement, and then they'd see the lights come on, and they'd hear the music, and the excitement. And then it was, "Oh, Dad, what are we doing?"
Lindsay: Well the only reason that we didn't do that through high school, because we were the same. We had to have the music on, everything ready. But because people just didn't wake up early, we were rolling out of bed, finally.
Dr. Kim: That was a big change. I remember in the first year that happened it's like, "Did they leave us? Did they run away in the middle of the night?" Because, usually, it was four in the morning and making them, "Guys, you got to go back to sleep."
"Well, can we sleep with you on Christmas Eve?"
"Yes, on Christmas Eve. Go back to sleep."
Lindsay: If you'll be quiet, anything.
Dr. Kim: You be quiet, go back to sleep.
Lindsay: Oh, that's so funny. That's a funny one because I remember if you have one kid who gets up early and they have to wait and wait, eventually.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Dr. Kim: Or they wake everybody else up. And, so, you've got some that didn't really want to get up then.
Lindsay: Definitely, yes, so that's really fun. What's been a challenge for you and Nancy during your Christmas seasons together?
Dr. Kim: Oh, for me, and it comes up every year, is overspending. I just get carried away, especially, when the kids and the grandkids were toy-age. And really probably Eli, our 10-year-old, is the only one who's still toy age the others have passed that. Nancy thought that I would take it too far.
So we've worked on that and done a little better with that over. But the other thing that was a challenge for us, and some couples get too, is when we first got married. Well, Nancy's family was in Houston, we were in Oklahoma City.
Well, at that time, the first years of our marriage, the first 12 years of our marriage. I was still working in my dad's company, which is supermarkets, and that's your busiest time of the year. And, so, we really couldn't go to be down there for Christmas Eve and stuff.
And, so, we started going for New Year's down there. But I know, I felt for Nancy in that but she seemed to really accept it. And I think what happened once I went back to school in ministry, we had already established our own traditions here, and we wanted to keep those traditions, so if we'd had a chance where we would.
I know a lot of couples go spend Christmas one year with one family. And the next year with the other family things like that, we might have done. But I think that was an early challenge. But we worked that pretty good.
Because most families, your families of origins, don't even think about something changing when you get married, and it does change and a lot of times it will change. Very seldom do things get to remain the same.
And, so, that was an adjustment for Nancy. And one thing my family, my parents, always did such a good job of stuff. We had some really cool traditions and Nancy fell in love with those, and to the point of not wanting to really to miss those.
Lindsay: Hmm.
Dr. Kim: And then when our kids, she had our kids, there's just something special. We thought, for us, about being home on Christmas morning with our kids and letting them wake up in their own bed and all that stuff. So our tradition was always to spend time with her family over the holidays. But it was not necessarily going to be on Christmas Eve or Christmas day.
A lot of times we left the day after Christmas. One year, I think Grant was three, Julie wasn't born yet. Maybe he wasn't quite three, he was probably two and a half. And we decide, "Okay, we're going to surprise them. We're going to have our family deal that morning, and then we're going to fly to Houston and surprise everybody, Christmas afternoon."
We spent the whole afternoon in the airport. We never got out and with a two-and-a-half-year-old, it was just miserable. And then we finally got out on a 10 o'clock flight that night. And we sit and by then we'd had to tell our family because somebody had get to the airport and pick us up, and all this kind of stuff.
So that was the last time that we did that, traveling on Christmas Day. And I've heard some other horror stories about traveling on Christmas Day. When you're depending on airlines, something like that-
Lindsay: Yes, that sounds miserable.
Dr. Kim: There is nothing exciting about an airport on Christmas Day, that I found, there just wasn't.
Lindsay: I haven't tried it, but I'm not tempted actually.
Dr. Kim: No.
Lindsay: So, I'm so curious what was one of the traditions that you and Nancy just loved that you had grown up with, with your family?
Dr. Kim: Oh, Christmas Eve, my mom always did it really special. That was our big, my grandmother always did Christmas Day lunch, and it was the traditional Turkey dressing, all that kind of stuff. But my mom, I mean, she would do it. It was fancy, it was all the nice stuff out really elaborate meal, really fancy and there was just a magic to it. Just the way she had the house looking, and lights, and candles, and everything, and it was just a magical atmosphere.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, that was one of the things. And the other thing I think that we started our first year was on Christmas Eve. After we got home from my parents, we'd usually sit in front of our Christmas tree and just talk, or spend time together, or listen to Christmas music.
Sometimes we might watch a Christmas movie. But that couple of hours that night before we went to bed, on Christmas Eve, was a really special thing we looked forward to. And I don't think we've got a picture of it, I wish we did.
But our first Christmas tree, it was really bad. It was real, and I'm not sure how many needles were on it by the time we got to Christmas Day. But you know what? We thought it was beautiful and we just thought it was the coolest thing in the world. So those were some of the things that really meant a lot to us. What about you guys?
Lindsay: Yes, we had some similar ones. So for me growing up my dad always was in music ministry, always worked in church. So Christmas Eve was a big night, there were a lot of services going on. So that was something we were always used to was going to church Christmas Eve, and that was really special.
And, so, we would have this, it was the opposite dinner. We'd just have a cheese spread and just cold food, but it was really special, kind of appetizers and stuff. Depending on what time the services were, maybe we'd have dinner before, maybe after.
And, so, one of our traditions, and I know this sounds crazy to a lot of people. Well, we do travel with our kids. We go to visit my parents for Christmas and all of my siblings still live in the same city with my parents. And, so, once we get there the entire family is assembled.
Dr. Kim: That's cool.
Lindsay: And for a long time, a lot of Brian's family was in the same town too, so it makes things easy. And we would just go and pack into this house like a bunch of sardines and just roll with it, make the most of that kind of thing.
And, so, we've enjoyed sticking with that tradition, even as we've morphed a little bit. We've tried not traveling a few times because we thought "You know what, the kids are old enough we should do our thing." And every year they go, "No, we just want to go we love that." And, so, that's been really fun.
Dr. Kim: That's really special.
Lindsay: It is.
Dr. Kim: That's so cool. I know some other families, we got some good friends growing up and everybody came to their house, and everybody spent the night at their house. And they, like what you're saying, I don't know where they put them all, but they were together all the time. So it's really about the relationships and the people. Christmas Eve service has been a part of our life.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I had it growing up. Our church always had a music communion service on Christmas Eve.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Nancy and I went to that, went to other things our church now does. And, so, the church has always been a big part of it. And probably one of my favorite things is at our church, now for years, we do, at the end, the Silent Night. When everybody has a candle and the room is dark and I love it the way they did.
And I guess most churches do it this way. But the room goes dark and then that one candle lights the first one, and then by the time you just see it travel. And the light continues to glow and they're singing Silent Night and it's just like, "Wow, this is really special." It's just the light that came into the world and just to see it glow like that and overcome the darkness, as you're singing Silent Night is pretty special.
Lindsay: I love that. I'm getting really excited for Christmas Eve right now. So we have been talking about all the really fun and sweet parts of Christmas, but there is also some stress involved. We have to admit that there's some stressful things that can happen. So there's been some questions that I have really wrestled with and I'm curious how you guys handled this.
So we've always struggled with, for example, how many presents do you get the kids?
How do you have to keep it fair? Dollar amount or number of presents they open. Some kids will ask for everything. Some kids will ask for nothing and they have a secret wish list that nobody knows about, so they're disappointed. So how have you guys handled that as parents and as grandparents?
Dr. Kim: The grandkids know that we try to spend the same thing on everybody. And I think they've been always pretty good with that. Our kids, we always were very careful, in the early years, to make sure they had the same number of presents.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: We might spend more on one the other. But to them, at that point, it was not that they counted, but maybe they did I don't know. But you just wanted to make sure all that was fair. And, so, because I have a struggle with just overbuying. We try to shop early, get things. Which is great except to always find things by the kids, that they want to add to it.
And, so, doing a budget really helped a lot. So we have a budget, and we spend so much on each person. And if it's one thing we spend the whole thing because they want that one thing, that's great.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: If it's two or three things that we can get for that amount, that's fine, and they all know that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: We start early and we try to make sure that we get something they really want. And, sometimes, that's something that's broken by that night.
Lindsay: Right.
Dr. Kim: But they really wanted it. I learned being practical at Christmas with kids is probably not the smartest thing to do.
Lindsay: It's boring.
Dr. Kim: Yes, exactly. So and Nancy is great at figuring out things for the girls, which includes granddaughters and daughter-in-law, and daughter. She's real perceptive about things that they love. I think I do a pretty good job on the boys and she does a pretty good job with some of the stuff for the boys too. This year I was just thinking, Eli is our youngest and he's 10 and we're running out of the toys years, and I miss that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: When Toys "R" Us closed nationally, I went into a deep, not a depression, but I mean, because that was part of our Christmas tradition for years. One of our shopping places we'd go to Toys "R" Us and buy the things that the kids had put on their list the grandkids on their list and, so, anyway.
Lindsay: That giant catalog that they always sent.
Dr. Kim: Oh, yes, did you ever see the deal where the catalog comes, and they ask the kids to mark what they like in it. And then you look and there's something on every page and you're thinking, "Well, now, I've just set them up for disappointment."
Lindsay: Right, yes.
Dr. Kim: So it's fun.
Lindsay: It's fun. It is hard as a parent to wrestle against that practicality. I think that's where I come to a really difficult decision. I'm like, "I know it's going to break tomorrow. That's something for the grandparents, that's not something for me." If they want that, I can't-
Dr. Kim: Exactly, that's exactly right.
Lindsay: We will set a budget and we'll try to be strategic, and then I'm like, "Oh, but just the one more thing." And then you get one person one more thing and then you might have to get everyone one more thing, it's bad.
Dr. Kim: I know. Nancy is really good about that. Well, I guess I do the stockings for the boys and she does for the girls, but she's really good about balancing all that out. And it's fun and we try to not get too caught up in that part of it, but try to make it as fair as we can.
Lindsay: Yes, I mean, it is a fun thing. When we were earlier in marriage and our kids were younger and they're so little. There's one famous year that my kids remember. I mean, they were so little, I think they were like six, four, and two or something like that.
And one of the things we got them for Christmas was sheets. We got them flannel sheets with stockings, it was very festive, but now they laugh about them. They go like, "Oh, Mom, what are we going to get for Christmas, sheets?" I'm always like, "Hey, you loved those sheets, they were exciting at the time."
Dr. Kim: I think sheets is much better than underwear or socks. But sometimes I know some people you want to get some practical things at Christmas because of budgets and stuff and, so, that kind of thing. I don't think I was ever given something that practical for Christmas. I remember the first Christmas without a toy and thinking, "What just happened to me?"
Lindsay: Oh, no.
Dr. Kim: It's like, "I'm too old for toys or do they think I'm too old for toys?" And then I started thinking, "Well, there was that one toy that I wanted." But it was just like that the first year that and stuff, and it was clothes or something like that. And it's like, "Wow."
Lindsay: That's some tough growing up stuff right there. That's really hard.
Dr. Kim: I'm such a kid at heart anyway, so it's just like-
Lindsay: Dr. Kim, I'd be surprised if you don't still have a couple of toys, even if it's stuff you impulse buy yourself.
Dr. Kim: I do.
Lindsay: There are a couple.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Oh, so there's hope, I got some fun stuff too.
Dr. Kim: Exactly.
Lindsay: So, during the Christmas season, what tips do you have to help us keep from being too busy? There's always just a couple of extra things here and there, but they really add up.
Dr. Kim: It is. I think we felt early on in our marriage, that everything we were invited to we had to do. Or if there was a production in town we wanted to make sure we saw it. If there was a new Christmas movie, we had to see it. Or we should be the first to see it and all that kind of stuff, and I think we learned to say no.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And that was okay to say no. I don't know why at Christmas you felt more guilty saying no to somebody, than you do the other times a year. But we also had some Christmas seasons that it was like, "Where did that month go?" It's like it was a blur. And the things that we really wanted to do, and the things that were really meaningful, we just didn't get done. They just didn't happen or didn't have enough time for those.
And, so, I think we learned to say no to some things and know that was okay. And it was just trying to simplify it a little bit and choose the things that we really thought were important. And where we are now, everything we do involves either real close friends or family.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: If we're going to, if a new Christmas movie comes out, usually, we're going to take grandkids with us to see the movie and make it a fun time with them. And, so, trying to make it more than just, "Okay, we've got to do this, this, and this."
"Okay, is this something we want to do? Who in the family would enjoy this?" Those kind of things.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes it's tough. It's tough to fit everything in.
Dr. Kim: Do y'all guys feel any pressure as pastors in the church? That if somebody in the church asks you to do something, it's like, "We have to do it."
Lindsay: Yes, I think we've gotten a lot more realistic about that. Kind of like what you're saying, and also this season we're in with our kids, we're really good at saying no because we have to be. A lot of times we find that we're not able to be spontaneous in a way that others are in different seasons.
And, so, we've just had to get really comfortable with saying, "We would love to make this happen, we can't do it now. So let's talk about some future dates." And what happens, usually, is people don't ever bring it back up again. But it's just where we are right now. We don't have as many free nights. We don't have as many opportunities to just do spontaneous things.
So it's just something that I've been able to say, "It's really not personal, it's just we're booked." And it's not because we're extra cool or whatever, we just have a lot of kids who do a lot of things.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and knowing it's okay to do that. It's okay to say, "Hey, thank you so much for asking, it is something. We love you guys, we can't do it." And sometimes just leave it there and know that, that is okay. And what I have seen over the years as Nancy and I have gotten better about setting boundaries.
The people that cross our boundaries, or want to cross them, or want to ignore them are usually people we don't spend time with anyway, they can't respect that. And the people that we really love and love us are very understanding, and we're understanding of them when it happens the other way.
Lindsay: Right.
Dr. Kim: Yes, "We'll miss you guys. Thanks for letting us know." Those kind of things.
Lindsay: "Yes, we understand."
Dr. Kim: Yes, and, again, it's what is the best thing for you and your family during this season.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm. Yes, and what's going to get us to the end of the season without feeling that really stressed and exhausted feeling. I mean, I've learned that the hard way so much by trying to squeeze in every single thing, and do everything I possibly could. And then just getting to the end and having this like, "Whuh, what now?" I just felt depleted and that's not how I want to enter the New Year. That's not how I want to look back and experience the Christmas season at all.
Dr. Kim: We had a good friend that was a great lady and she just did everything during Christmas, she didn't say no to anything. And Nancy and I just realized, after about four or five years, "Do you realize that she's sick every Christmas Day?"
Lindsay: Oh.
Dr. Kim: And she was. She just would wear herself down. And when it finally got to Christmas day she was sick. And, so, I don't want to do that, but you can wear yourself down very easily.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: So I think taking care of yourself so you can enjoy the things you want to enjoy, with the people that you want to be with is really important.
Lindsay: Yes, and then, for me, it's always hard to learn to be realistic because I just want to have this ideal situation. But to be realistic these are not all things that I can do, and that's okay.
Dr. Kim: Yes, exactly, and my mother made dressing for turkey, that everybody thought it was the best in the world. And, so, the last few years before she died, well, Julie was going to learn to do it, my daughter. So she'd go over there and then when Julie tried it, it didn't work out very good.
So I have the recipe and I tried it and so we realized that, "My gosh, this takes time and ours doesn't come anywhere near close to tasting like hers." So we do boxed dressing now when we do dressing.
But it was one of those things that I could have kept fighting it year after year. And I may try it again sometime, I don't know. But it was like, "Wow, I spent all this time getting the right stuff together." Because hers was pretty elaborate, and putting it together, and doing the stages, and all that kind of stuff. And it was like, "Okay, if it turned out maybe."
Lindsay: Sure.
Dr. Kim: But it didn't just, one year it was hard, the next year it was soft. And it was like, "Okay, something is wrong here." And I think it was the way my mom cooked, getting her to put down measurements was really difficult because she was that kind of a cook where she just knew. She knew the way it looked, she knew the way it felt. She knew all that stuff when it was right, and I don't have a clue about that.
Lindsay: Yes, just, setting some things down, that's a good thing.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
[00:26:34] < Music >
Lindsay: All right, so I got Brian to come join me today to talk about our Christmas traditions together. Are you ready?
Brian: I'm ready.
Lindsay: All right, awesome. So what is one of your favorite traditions that we have together?
Brian: Probably the Christmas tree because when we first started our Christmas tradition together. I was pretty grinchy and, so, I made us get a two-foot tall tree. But I think it was real but I think you think it was plastic.
Lindsay: It was not a real tree. We did not have a real tree that first year.
Brian: It was two-foot tall and it wasn't very special, it didn't smell good. And, so, now I love Christmas, I love the tree, I love the smell of the tree. I love having it in the house for a month. I love decorating the tree with the family. I love Christmas, and that was a big difference from where we started.
Lindsay: Yes, you were a little on the grinchy side, I have to say. Was it mostly about saving money or did you just not think it was important?
Brian: Both.
Lindsay: Both.
Brian: But I like to save money and we didn't have much money.
Lindsay: Yes, we were pretty young and broke. But also I do think that the fake tree we had, I'm pretty sure it was leftover from something at church, and we just got to take it home because it was essentially trash at that point.
But I agree, having the tree is one of my favorite parts of the season. Because we just have the twinkly Christmas lights on, first thing in the morning, last thing at night, and it's so beautiful to see those lights. And I love the light of Christmas reflecting the light of Christ. It's not only just beautiful but it's also really meaningful, so that's something that I enjoy as well.
Brian: And I think too, for me, having kids helped me learn the value of having traditions that you do every year, with the family, and mark those moments.
Lindsay: Yes, it's funny. It's one of those things too that they might act like they're over it or they're getting restless, when we're doing it. But if we would ever do it differently, I know that they would miss it and they would probably complain about it.
Brian: Yes, absolutely.
Lindsay: Okay, so how did we handle our Christmas traditions, when we started off our married life together?
Brian: Oh, wow, that was a shocker. My family didn't have too many traditions other than we did presents, we did big breakfast. We went to see grandparents, on Christmas day after we did all that. But we didn't have significant special traditions. And, so, I remember the first time that I was with Lindsay's family, she had two other adult sisters that were in college. Maybe one was in high school, but they were pretty much adults.
And at some point, during the Christmas celebration, they pulled out a box of children's books. And they started talking about who was going to read which book and we're going to read all the books. And this was really surprising for me because my thought was, "Are we really reading children's books together as adults?' And we were, they were very serious about this tradition.
Lindsay: Yes, I mean, we had to read them in the right order, we had to finish. The Night Before Christmas was the last, and after that was the story of Luke, that my dad would read, it was very serious for us.
And we didn't even think twice about the fact that we were, technically, adults at that point. We just had a great tradition. So I thought that we were blessing you with this, and I don't know that you necessarily saw it as a blessing and it was, maybe. What was it?
Brian: That's one way to put it, it was expanding my life.
Lindsay: Well, so now we really have left that behind. But I think that we've done a good job developing some traditions without going overboard. My temptation is to make everything a tradition. I want to have a thousand traditions. But I think we've done a good job of streamlining, having it fun, not having it be too intense. What do you think?
Brian: And I think, you had two sisters and a mom, so four girls and one dad.
Lindsay: Yes.
Brian: And when we got some more brother-in-laws, it helped even out the balance and create a balance for these traditions.
Lindsay: It's a different energy now, that's true. And in our house we have almost the opposite with one girl and then our three boys, so the energy level is different, everything is different.
Brian: Got to keep things moving.
Lindsay: Definitely, it keeps things moving. So would you say that there is like most-coveted or most-essential food that we have to have at Christmas?
Brian: Hmm. It's between apple cider, I just love it. It represents the time of year, and also just the smell and the taste, and all those things are nostalgic for me. But the one we don't get to really have any more is the Pioneer Woman Cinnamon Roll, just made with a ton of butter. But unfortunately half our house is gluten-free and we tried to replicate it, but the gluten-free ones are pretty hard. They don't have the softness of the Pioneer's Cinnamon Rolls.
Lindsay: So disappointing, just not the same. If you have a good recipe share it with me because I need a better gluten-free recipe. That was a good one, you're right. I think the one thing I love, I can't get over making Christmas cookies, I love making them. There's these little Christmas like candy cane peppermint flavored ones. You don't even like them, do you?
Brian: I don't really like the Christmas, they look cool but they don't taste so good. I like the chocolate chip.
Lindsay: Well, but it's chocolate chip all the time. This is a special just for Christmas only, that's the one thing I do-
Brian: So do you love making them more than you actually like eating them?
Lindsay: Oh, no, I like both. I like both very much. Is there any holiday story or memory that you'd like to share?
Brian: I don't have any that sticks out.
Lindsay: The only one that really sticks out more than the others is because it's a terrible one. So our worst holiday fail, we couldn't have really done anything to prevent this, I don't think. But it's memorable in all the wrong ways.
The one year, after you were working at a church, we had Christmas Eve service. And, so, we were at the Christmas Eve service, we were going to leave straight from there to travel up to visit family. Because we always travel to visit family on Christmas, that's just what we do. It's a tradition that everybody loves.
But this year we had packed the car, it was like Santa's sleigh. We had every present, every kid's bag, we had a pack and play. We had car seats, everything, we're all dressed in our Christmas Eve attire. We get in the car to go, we get about a mile outside I think of the church, and one of our kids gets the stomach bug just violently suddenly out of nowhere, and it turned into a horror movie.
Brian: I remember just thinking, "Oh, everything is ruined. And then we're all going to get it. And, so, it's going to be ruined even more." It was just terrible.
Lindsay: Other kids are traumatized like, "What just happened?" The car was never the same. But it's funny because it's obviously everything we don't want for Christmas, but it's funny now we made it through.
Brian: Yes, it was traumatic.
Brian: Well, I'm looking forward to this Christmas.
Brian: Me too.
[00:33:40] < Music >
Dr. Kim: I'm excited to have Nancy join me on this part of the podcast, welcome.
Nancy: Hi.
Dr. Kim: It's so nice to have you here.
Nancy: And it's good to be here.
Dr. Kim: I know; this is maybe the first time you've been on the podcast?
Nancy: Maybe.
Dr. Kim: Maybe early days, I don't know, but it's good to have you. So we're going to talk about some Christmas stuff. What is one of the favorite Christmas traditions that we have together?
Nancy: Well, I particularly love for us to go to church on Christmas Eve, and we light the candle and sing Silent Night. I just think that's beautiful.
Dr. Kim: It is. When the whole congregation has a candle on their hand, all lights are out, we're all singing-
Nancy: Light of the world.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and you just see that and it just gives this beautiful glow. I love that. I think I always like it Christmas Eve after everybody comes over for Christmas Eve dinner and then after they leave we usually have some time together. And I've always liked that.
Sometimes we'd watch an old Christmas movie. Sometimes we'd sit in front of the Christmas tree. When the kids were little it was like helping get things ready for the next day, with that, and that was always fun.
But it was kind of magical and fun, and it was just the two of us after having family and we had a tradition for 35 years, where we had a number of our friends over for Christmas Eve brunch for years. And, so, that was when things got quiet before the hecticness of Christmas Day came again and I love that.
Nancy: Exactly.
Dr. Kim: So how did you handle Christmas traditions, as we started off our married life together?
Nancy: How did we handle them? What did we do? Is that what you mean?
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Nancy: Well, I think we really enjoyed going out and looking at lights together.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm.
Nancy: And, again, we went to church back then on Christmas Eve.
Dr. Kim: That was big part of it.
Nancy: That was another big part of it, and just having family over, and doing things with friends during that week, it's always been special.
Dr. Kim: And we had a live Christmas tree for a long time, a lot of years. And it was always fun to go pick that out. And then when the kids got to be six or seven, somewhere there. There was a Christmas tree farm close and we would go there on the Saturday after Thanksgiving every year.
Nancy: Yes, every year.
Dr. Kim: And we would trample over that. Sometimes, there'd be some snow, which is really cool, and we'd cut our own tree down. And they'd bring it home, and decorate it, and try to keep it alive till Christmas, which didn't always work.
Nancy: It didn't always work.
Dr. Kim: I think it was one of those years, it had been a dry summer here, and two weeks before Christmas the needles were falling off.
Nancy: It was sad.
Dr. Kim: And that's when we bought our first artificial tree, that year.
Nancy: Yes.
Dr. Kim: Yes, those are the main ones that I remember. So what would you say, for you, as the most-coveted Christmas treat at our table every year?
Nancy: Well, I enjoy the Happy Birthday Jesus birthday cake because it has a sweet flavor-
Dr. Kim: Yes, well, tell me about that?
Nancy: Well, we either make or go buy, usually, a chocolate and put Happy Birthday Jesus on it with a candle and we bring it in. Everybody sings Happy Birthday to Jesus and we let the littlest kid blow it out.
Dr. Kim: I know, it is fun. It's really cool. I think, for me, I always like pies, or desserts, so the cake then, or like we always do tenderloin. I just think it's part of, for me, it's just that whole meal as it comes together is really special. Because we have some things that we don't do all the time. Although we don't put them together like that all the time. And, so, just having all the family at the table and it's just really special.
Nancy: Yes.
Dr. Kim: Okay, is there a holiday story or memory that you'd like to share?
Nancy: Well, I think the Christmas that was most dramatic was when we had a blizzard on Christmas Eve morning. We were having people over and a lot of people got stuck, and couldn't make it.
Dr. Kim: And it started really about the time people were starting to come. Our brunch was like a two-hour window. So some people came early, it hadn't really started.
Nancy: Right.
Dr. Kim: I can just remember looking out. Where we lived we could see out those back windows, and seeing the wind and the snow just blowing like crazy and thinking, "Oh, my gosh."
Nancy: I know.
Dr. Kim: And I don't think any of us had any idea what it was going to be like.
Nancy: No.
Dr. Kim: So one of the things that night then I had to go pick up my son-in-law, he got stranded. And, so, I got him, our daughter, and Gracie was just a baby then, really, wasn't she?
Nancy: Yes, she was.
Dr. Kim: When that happens, that's been 12 years ago, 11 years ago. And, so, they came. My son got his family, they had a pick up and they were able to get to our house. And I remember our church was doing it online too. And, so, we all sat around our living room and watched church online. And that was probably the only Christmas Eve you and I haven't been inside of a church building, I think.
Nancy: Probably.
Dr. Kim: But it was fun. And then Julie, and Doug, and Gracie spent the night. Grant's family went home and came back the next morning, and it was just fun.
Nancy: It was.
Dr. Kim: It was so different. It was just different. And I think a lot of people thought, "Oh, my gosh." And then really enjoyed it after it really happened.
Nancy: Right.
Dr. Kim: So, yes, that was probably one of my favorite ones too. The other one that was really cool, and this was years ago, but it was when Grant was probably three. And we were always in Oklahoma City for Christmas because at that time, my work, we just couldn't get away. And your parents came and surprised us on Christmas Day.
Nancy: Oh, that was great.
Dr. Kim: And, so, that's when we went to my grandmother's for Christmas dinner every year. And, so, my mom and dad, I guess knew that they were coming, they picked them up and got everything. And then we walked into my grandmother's house and I just remember your eyes, when you saw your parents. She just had this shock and tears came up in your eyes, and it was just cool.
Nancy: It was very special.
Dr. Kim: It was a really special Christmas. So I know all of you guys have your own memories, holiday stories, we just wanted to share some of these things with you. And both of us would like to wish you guys, all of you, a very-
Nancy: Merry Christmas.
Dr. Kim: Merry Christmas.
[00:40:55] < Music >
Lindsay: So, Dr. Kim, do you have any final words as we wrap up this episode and close out the year?
Dr. Kim: Oh, I just think it probably is, definitely, everyone in our family would say it's their favorite time of the year.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Part of it I guess is maybe in our minds, and part of it is the realities of the great experiences we've had. I think keep your expectations realistic. I told somebody the other day that they were trying to have a Norman Rockwell Christmas, and they didn't know who Norman Rockwell was.
Lindsay: Oh, no.
Dr. Kim: I got to find a new, but he was a guy that was an artist for one of the magazines. And, so, he'd have these pictures and these family pictures were all this perfect thing. And I could just remember one that was a Thanksgiving cover one time and all the families there, everybody has their hands folded. You're thinking, "Oh, that's perfect."
Well, "Nobody ever will get there." And, so, it's that idealistic thing and, so, not going for that. But just embrace what's in front of you and really, I mean, when that slogan came out, "Jesus is the reason for the season" and that's corny, but you know what, it really is, and He is.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I would say the main thing is just don't miss Him at Christmas, just don't miss Him.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's so good. That's so good. I do want to mention, too, we have the Very Married Christmas: Couple's Advent Calendar, and this year it's like such a fun thing that we have. It's our thank you gift for sharing with GivingTuesday, which you can still do at the link in the show notes.
But this calendar, we're halfway through Christmas now, but it still is probably worth getting. Because it's got just one really simple and doable thing every day. It's something that you can do in probably five minutes or so. And these are just really simple ways to add some connection to the Christmas season.
Dr. Kim: So cool.
Lindsay: Yes, we hope that you have a wonderful Christmas week. We're going to be taking just a couple of weeks off from the podcast, and we'll be back on January 17th with fresh episodes. Thank you for sharing your time with us today. We pray it's been encouraging. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage today.
[00:43:18] < Outro >
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[00:43:55] < Music >