How to Reset Your Thoughts and Habits with Debra Fileta | Ep. 568

[00:00:03] < Intro >

Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host, Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor, and has been married for over 50 years. His past mission is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.

Dr. Kim: Well, welcome to today's Awesome Marriage Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. I have a special treat for you today. Over the last eight years, I've gotten to know Debra Fileta very well. She's been on a podcast a number of times. I love the books she writes. She has a brand new one called Reset, that we're going to get into today. So let's go to the studio so you can see Debra Fileta 

Well, Debra. Welcome to The Awesome Marriage podcast. I was going to count how many times you've been on, and I didn't get a chance to do that. But you are definitely our most tenured guest.

Debra: I would love to know that.

Dr. Kim: It has been quite a few, and I love it every time. It's so good to see you. I just enjoy our relationship and friendship, and it's so much fun to follow you. And this new book is pretty special. You and I did a Facebook Live on it, launch week, maybe, and then just to be able to watch it go. So I'm excited for you in this book and how it's going to impact people.

Debra: Thank you so much. It's been a fun journey. I bet you've had this feeling but, sometimes, when you write a book, it's not just for the people you're writing it's for you as well. And, so, it's just to watch the Lord even work in my life, and helping me reset in certain areas and start to do things differently.

Dr. Kim: Oh, absolutely. It's funny how God works that, but I agree with the same thing. Nancy said when I started writing I became a better husband.

Debra: Yes, that's awesome.

Dr. Kim: So, I guess, I better keep writing.

Debra: Seriously, don't stop.

Dr. Kim: Don't stop that. So let's talk a little bit about that. When you wrote the book, what did you have in mind?

Debra: Yes, I went through this season of seeing client after client. Where I really felt like they were struggling with all the stuff that was starting to come up, to the surface of their lives. Things that they'd never experienced before like depression, anxiety, relationship conflict, addictions, rage, anger, irritability. But others had experienced it before.

But, maybe, it had been on hibernate for a while, and, all of a sudden, it's starting to come back up. And people were starting to feel a little confused. Because it's like, "Wait a second, we're in 2022." At the time. And it was like, "Why is this happening now?" We just went through the most stressful season, and we were "fine" quote-unquote. And people were like, "Why now? Why now am I struggling with all this stuff?"

Well, it makes so much sense to me because as a counselor we know that human beings are like a volcano. And all of the stress and pressure begins to build underneath the surface of our lives. And, all of a sudden, when the pressure is too much, it has to find the point of least resistance and come up in an emotional explosion. 

So here these people are having emotional explosion after emotional explosion. And, oftentimes, we don't have those emotional explosions during the stressful event, during the traumatic event. So for our country and our world, it was 2020. That was a very traumatic year for so many people. So much loss, so much grief, so much uncertainty, so much change. But you don't deal with the stress during the trauma.

When you're in the middle of a trauma, you're just in survival mode, just trying to get through it. But later on, when life starts to resemble safety and security again, some of those things begin to come up to the surface. And, so, people were coming in for counseling with all of these things. Wondering, "What do I do?"

"How do I change?"

"How do I begin to reset some of this stuff? I don't want this to be a part of my life and I'm struggling." So Reset was really birthed out of the idea that people got to a point, where they knew that they weren't doing well, they just didn't know where to go from there.

Dr. Kim: I think that's so true, and it was interesting because none of us had been through a pandemic before. And none of us knew what it was going to be affected. And I can just remember talking to people through the pandemic. I'd say, "How are you doing?"

They'd say, "Oh, I'm doing fine."

And I kept thinking, "You can't be; there's got to be something." And, maybe, it's just we didn't know how to do, how to survive through. I guess we survived through that, maybe, that's the answer. A lot of people, I think, just survived.

I had people, I had one sweet lady that was in the hospital ten days, at the time, when she couldn't have visitors and they thought she was going to die. And, then, she came home and she continued to suffer, and all the things that went on like that because her life was almost perfect before that. And, then all of a sudden, you've got to deal with that. And, so, I think, we didn't know how to do it. And now we're seeing coming out of that, we need help, we need resets. We need direction to help get our lives back on track.

Debra: Yes, and the other interesting thing about it, is it's not always just the trauma from the present that sneaks up. If you think about that volcano, there's trauma from the past and trauma in the present. And let's say we've never dealt with the trauma from the past, and, now all of a sudden, we're heaping on more trauma from the present. That volcano gets to a place of emotional explosion much faster. 

And, so, there's all these different layers to the experiences that different people had, and the way they had them, and why they had them, and when they had them. But, at the end of the day, the same idea, for all of us, is that we need to start digging. Going underneath the surface, and beginning to face that pressure and alleviate that pressure in healthy ways.

Dr. Kim: The volcano makes such a good picture. It's like we just didn't have any place to continue to stuff things. And so many people, like we do, we get busy and we avoid, "We need to deal with this."

"Yes, I think so, but I'll deal with it later." And, then, it got to a point where we knew we had to do something like that. So most people have, repeatedly, tried to change old habits, gotten nowhere. All kinds of books on changing habits.

Debra: Yes, there are a lot of books out there.

Dr. Kim: So why do we get stuck? Why can't we do that?

Debra: I think it's because we start with the external things, rather than the internal things. And in the introduction of my book, I talk about a car that I had that was quite the lemon. It was like one of those old cars that you have. I was in college and everything was going wrong on that car. The windows would roll down randomly. The alarm would start to go off while I was driving it. The windshield wipers would just start to go, and it was frustrating.

But I could have dealt with that problem by dealing with the symptoms from the outside in. I could have just muffled the alarm or duct taped those windows shut. But those quick fixes aren't, actually, getting to the root. They're not actually getting underneath the hood.

And, so, it is with us as human beings. We often start externally rather than internally. So let's say we want to lose weight. We clean out our pantry. We get a gym membership for however many bazillion dollars, and we're like, "I'm going to do this." And then a couple of months later, we're off the tracks again.

Because external behavior will only last as long as willpower lasts, and willpower does not last forever. Because willpower comes with emotions, and emotions shift and change.

And, so, we're starting at the wrong end of the spectrum. And the entire book of Reset is based on this simple premise; Your thoughts lead to your feelings, and your feelings lead to your behaviors. And you have to understand that equation. And if you want to change your behaviors, you don't start at the end of the equation with the behaviors. You start at the beginning of the equation with your thoughts.

And I really believe this isn't just good counseling and psychology, this is biblical. Romans 12:2 says, "Do not be conformed to the patterns of this world." That's a behavior. Don't do what the world does. Don't behave like them. "But be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

So don't behave this way. So how do I not behave this way? God doesn't give you a list of, "Okay, don't do this, and then do this, and then stop doing this." The next step is being transformed by the renewing of your mind. If you want to change your behavior, start with your mind. Change your thoughts and you will, ultimately, change your life. 

And, so, we have to get to the root of what it is we actually believe and think, and where those things come from. So it's thoughts, feelings, behaviors. And throughout Reset, we unpack each of these one layer at a time, and help you get to the bottom of why it is that you do what you do.

Dr. Kim: Which is so important. You're right because our culture lends to get the behaviors. "Join this gym, do this." I can remember when I worked out at the Y for years, with the same guys, and every January is when the new people came in. We wouldn't really place bets, but we'd say, "Okay, I bet they last three weeks. I bet they last six weeks."

And most of the time we were right, they were all gone in a couple of months. Because, just what you're saying, you can't just do the behavior change. You got to have something else and you got to uncover some things.

Debra: Absolutely.

Dr. Kim: That's so good. So you talk about our habits being on autopilot. How do we get off autopilot and take back the wheel?

Debra: Yes, well, first of all, we have to realize that we're on autopilot. And most of us don't realize we're, actually, on autopilot. We think we're living our life and doing great things each day, and then we're back in the same old ruts. And part of the reason is that, sometimes, the unhealthy thoughts become so familiar that we don't even recognize them anymore.

I don't even realize how negative, toxic, dysfunctional, black and white my thinking is. How shame-filled the narrative inside my mind is. I don't even realize it anymore because I'm just so used to living like this. 

I have four kids and, oftentimes, I'll hop in the car and I'm driving for 20, 30 minutes, by myself. Maybe running to the store and I'm like, "Why have I been listening to children's songs this whole time?" Because I'm so used to hearing the music that I tune it out, and I could have been listening to anything I wanted to. I could have been listening to The Awesome Marriage podcast, if I wanted to.

But I am so familiar that I tune it out, and we do the same things with our thoughts. We've thought in certain patterns for so long, that we often choose what's familiar over what's healthy. So getting out of autopilot requires us to, actually, objectively, begin to face our thoughts, our feelings, and our behaviors. Looking at it from an outside-in perspective, as if we're examining somebody else's life. 

One of the things that I appreciate about Reset is that it's practical. I love practical things. And, so, when I write, I try to do it in a practical way. So at the end of every chapter, there's this practical activity, assignment, for you to, actually, begin to reset whatever that lesson was. There are 31 different practices, and then 31 different activities. And one of them is, actually, learning how to have an outside-in perspective. Learning how to look at your behaviors through the lens of somebody else. 

"What would that person say about me?"

"What would my spouse say about me?"

"What would my children say about me; with my feelings, and my behaviors, and the things that come out of my mouth, and the things that I do, and the way that I behave?" Because it helps us to get out of autopilot mode. When we can actually look at our situation a little bit more objectively, and see where our strengths are, but also where our weaknesses are.

Dr. Kim: In some ways, it's realizing your normal might not be normal. 

Debra: Yes, that's exactly right.

Dr. Kim: You've just jumped into it, you've accepted it, and you just-

Debra: Your normal might not be very healthy.

Dr. Kim: No, and I think we can all get there, especially, if there's not a real pain point, at that time. Sure, if there are some pain points, that, probably, gets our attention. But a lot of times there's not. Like listening to kids' songs, when you could be listening to something else that you really wanted to.

Debra: And the problem is we become our own measuring stick. It's like, "Well, I guess, I'm doing pretty good." But research shows us that we are probably not, actually, doing as well as we think we are. Even the ones who are listening today, and they're like, "I'm doing pretty good."

You know what? You're probably not, you just think you are. And I think it's more dangerous to think that you are. There was a social study that they did called the Better-Than-Average-Effect. Where they, basically, took a bunch of people and asked them to rate themselves on a scale. 

How good do you think you are in kindness, morality? 

How good do you parallel park? All these random things. And the majority of people said that they were better than average. But you can't, mathematically, have the majority of people be better than average. Someone has to fall below the mean. But nobody wanted to put themselves below the mean. And we do that with our own mental and emotional health, as well.

We look around at some of the horrible stories around us, and we're like, "Well, at least, I'm doing better than them." And those stories might be a fraction of what's going on. Instead of, actually, looking around at how we're doing, and where we could be, and what God is calling us to - an abundant life, not just a life of survival.

Not just a life littered with these quiet addictions. Not just a life of irritation, and apathy, and depression. Not just a life that is ravaged by anxiety, and we call that the norm because everybody's stressed out. How am I actually doing? And what is it in my life that needs a reset?

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. I love what you said there, too, about sometimes we look at others and think we're doing better than them. And, so, we think we're okay, I think we've got to look at ourselves. Which is really hard to do, isn't it? I mean, to just take the time, people listening, today. One of the things I love about Reset is, like you said, there are 31 chapters, 31 things you can do. So it's not like you've got this thing all at once. You can have steps.

Debra: Yes, and, hopefully, little bite-sized steps so that you're not overwhelmed.

Dr. Kim: Right, which is so important.

Debra: One little thing at a time. And each one leads the way to the next one. One layer at a time. That's the journey of healing. It is one layer at a time. It is an invitation from the Lord to say, "Hey, let's do one more layer in this season of life. Let's do one more layer, we got this." Rather than just staying the same. Rather than continuing to slowly go backwards one layer at a time.

And, to me, rather than see it as, "Oh, now I have to pick out my flaws and figure out what I need to change." No, you are invited to become the best version of yourself. You are invited to become more like Jesus. You are invited to live life abundantly, and that's a really empowering place to be.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, and it's really just taking that first step. It's opening the book; it's reading that first one. And, then, somewhere in there, it energizes us. 

Debra: I think so.

Dr. Kim: Because we're seeing we can do this. If God created me to be somebody different than who I've been, He's in this with me, for one thing. And it's just like, "Oh, my gosh, can I really be who God created me to be?"

"Can I take these steps to do things different that will really make a difference?" And then you start seeing the ripple effect because the people around you are going, "What happened to you?"

Debra: Yes, I want to talk about that ripple effect. Because, recently, someone said to me, "Isn't the work of healing hard? The work of healing. You always talk about the work of healing, Debra, the work. Isn't the work of healing hard?" 

And I said, "The work of healing is hard." As I look through Reset and the 31 practices, sure, some of them are simple. Like take ten minutes today and pause, and be still, and tune into what's going on around you. Some of them are a little harder. Talking about childhood wounds and going back to some of the points of pain and trauma.

Yes, the work of healing is hard, but living unhealed is harder. Because all of that baggage, that dysfunction, that pain, those bad habits, those addictions, they don't just affect you. They begin to seep out of your life into the lives of your family, your children, your marriage, your job, everything around you. 

And, so, yes, the work of healing is hard. But the work of staying the same and living unhealed is much harder, and bears no fruit in the end. So I would much rather choose the hard work of healing, with a guide. With the Holy Spirit as the guide number one. With Reset and all the other things that God has provided, counselors and groups. There's so many things at our fingertips.

So, yes, I would rather choose the work of healing than to live unhealed. And I pray that those listening, today, might even begin to feel that something inside of them shift and say, "You know what? It has been hard living unhealed, maybe, it's time for a reset. Maybe it's time to believe that I can, actually, do things differently, and it doesn't matter how old I am. I mean, you know how I know this to be true, Dr. Kim? You're a young man, in your 70s, with all kinds of technology at your fingertips. It's never too late to say, "I'm going to learn something new."

"I'm going to do things differently than I've ever done them before."

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. Yes, and the other thing I was thinking, as you were saying that. When you stay stuck there, you get to where you don't even see there's hope.

Debra: Yes.

Dr. Kim: And when you start saying, "I want to get out of this." Then, all of a sudden, there's hope there, too. Because you're taking a step in that direction of change and inviting God in. And, yes, it's a huge step, I get it, and I get it's work. But I love the way you say it, boy, staying stuck or staying in those old habits, it's not fun.

Debra: You said earlier, when you start to see changes and momentum, it builds momentum. It builds energy, "Wait a second, I can actually do this." And someone left a review the other day, and he said, "I feel like I see myself changing as I'm going through this book. I'm seeing the reset happen right before my eyes, and I'm not even halfway through the book, yet." 

And I really do believe it's not the words in the book. It's the practices that you learn, that you apply to your life. He's starting to do the work. The work will always yield fruit. There will always be results with the work, when we do it in the right way. My goal is that these practices give you a roadmap. Not just, "Yes, I want to change." But here's how to actually do it.

Dr. Kim: Well, it goes back to what you said, at the beginning. It starts with your thoughts and, then, it goes from there. And I love what you said about we usually just try to start with our behaviors, and that doesn't work, not for long.

Debra: Not for long, absolutely.

Dr. Kim: Not for long at all. So let's talk about couples. So couples have habits in their marriage. So what happens if one wants to change and then the other one doesn't?

Debra: I say change because think about all the ingredients you put in a smoothie. If you're putting terrible ingredients in the smoothie, it's probably going to taste terrible. But even if one of you starts to change out the ingredients a little bit. If it's all kale and spinach, I mean, I know those are healthy, but let's talk about just how it tastes.

Dr. Kim: Let's talk about reality.

Debra: Let's talk about reality. If it's all just those things that don't taste good, the whole thing doesn't taste good. When one of you begins to swap that out. Maybe I'll throw some bananas in, some strawberries, some pineapple juice, just to sweeten this up a little bit. When I start to do the work myself, it begins to change the entire dynamic. It begins to change the entire recipe. When I swap out just my ingredients. 

You can't control the other person's ingredients. You cannot control what they do or don't do. But you can change your portion, and that can begin to influence the person that you're with. When you're no longer triggered by your spouse, it can change the entire dynamic of the marriage. When you, now, know how to set boundaries and say no because you have learned to heal. It changes the dynamic of the relationship. 

And, so, there's so much freedom in realizing that my spouse doesn't have to change for me to change. My spouse doesn't have to heal for me to heal. Oftentimes, when one person takes the lead, the other gets motivated to follow. But even if that doesn't happen, you're still influencing the atmosphere of the relationship. And not only that, the atmosphere of your own life, and that's a really important thing. We have to take responsibility for what we can, which is our role in the situation.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, you can't change your spouse. But I agree, I've seen it happen many times, just in counseling. Where one spouse comes to start and the other doesn't, and begins to see changes in the other one. And, sometimes, that just encourages that other spouse to say, "He/she did it, why can't I do that?" And we begin to take that step and it does. The other part of it is it's not selfish, your life is better.

Debra: Yes, your life is better. You're healthier, you're going to react healthier, respond healthier. Your thoughts, feelings, behaviors, will be healthier, and it influences the whole dynamic of the marriage. It helps you see it with clearer eyes, a softer heart. It really just changes everything.

Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about when you talk about the habits being a source of frustration or shame, and the problems there. The habit and the frustration, the shame mindset, which a lot of people get caught up in. What's the first step to step out of that, and to begin changing when you get in that situation.

Debra: I always remind myself that shame moves me away from God because I feel bad. "I can't believe I did this again. How could I do this? What's wrong with me? I'm such an embarrassment, can God even love me?" All of these things that we think distance us from God. Think of Adam and Eve, in the garden, they felt ashamed, so they ran away. Rather than draw close to Him. 

And, so, we have two ways to see these things that are coming up to the surface that we don't like. Option number one is to feel ashamed and awful, and move away from God because we're so ashamed of these behaviors.

Option number two is to be grateful that God, in His mercy, exposed them. That God revealed them because He loves us enough to reveal the junk, so that He can heal it. And when we see it like that, it's like, "Thank you, God. I'm grateful that you're revealing this stuff in my life because you're trusting me. You want me to heal." And when you're filled with gratitude, it draws you to God rather than shame that pushes you away from Him.

So even in that, even in how we view our issues, our situation, our struggles. It can either draw us towards healing or move us away, and a big part of that is our mindset, our beliefs. And through Reset, I even guide you a few steps further of where did that shame begin and how do you deal with it? Obviously, we don't have time for all of that today. But I really think that recognizing that gratitude is such a better facilitator for healing than shame.

Dr. Kim: Mh-hmm, yes, and I just don't think shame comes from the Lord. I know God convicts us, but there's a big difference there. And, I think, shame comes from our culture, or the enemy, or all those things. Because it keeps you down and it takes away motivation and hope, and you just feel, "I just want to hide." And you're not going to heal by hiding. And to know that no matter what you've done or been through, that God always has an answer. No matter what it is, and begin to take the steps to allow Him to lead you in that.

Debra: Yes, Amen.

Dr. Kim: So when your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are in sync, lasting change becomes attainable. So we've talked about those, at the beginning, the thoughts, behaviors. And, so, how do we sync them up then? We're stuck with the thoughts, we're changing that. How do we sync all that up?

Debra: One step at a time. And the key is this; you want your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors to be moving you towards a place of peace and joy, and away from anxiety and depression. Thoughts, feelings, and behaviors moving me towards this place of peace and joy, in my life, and recognizing that they're all connected.

When you think a certain way, it triggers a feeling underneath the surface. The feeling is a signal that's telling you, "There's some belief system down here that you need to deal with." And then that feeling causes you to do something, to behave, they're all linked. 

So when you begin to change one, it will also have an impact. A domino effect on all the others because they are all linked. And, so, it's a really important part of the process to realize they're all connected.

And, so, if I don't know where to begin, I'm going to begin with the one that feels most comfortable to me. And throughout Reset, I talk about just different ways to tune into your thoughts, and feelings, and behaviors. And you don't have to start at practice one. If you get to practice one and you're like, "Wait a second, I don't know if I'm ready for this." Well, then skip to practice 14. Start with whichever one feels most comfortable for you because they're synced, they're linked, they're connected, and one will impact the other.

Dr. Kim: I love that. I never really thought about that with the book, but, yes, start where you want to.

Debra: Start where you want to, choose your own adventure.

Dr. Kim: Choose your own adventure, and let one step then lead you to the next step.

Debra: Yes.

Dr. Kim: That's really good. So we know we've got people listening, today, that are there, or have been there, or tried things. Maybe, they feel stuck, maybe they feel defeated, and maybe they're just thinking, "Ah, is this just one more thing? I failed at so many things." So what would you say to them about this book? What advice do you have for them? Because I see people like that.

I see people, who aren't in counseling, that I just happen to know or have met through at church, and just feel like they're there. They're stuck, they're defeated, because, sometimes, it's their whole countenance. That's just you think, "I don't see that burden, but I see you."

Debra: Yes, the beautiful thing about change is it took you a lot of years to get here. Which means that change should never happen overnight. And if it does it's, probably, not real change. So if it's taking you a long time to heal and change, that's to be expected. That's part of the journey. That's part of the process of healing. So have grace with yourself, and realize that it's one thing at a time. One practice at a time. One day at a time, one step at a time. 

The journey of healing is not linear. It's not just, "Every day I get better, better, better." It's cyclical. There's going to be days where you struggle a little bit and then you learn from those struggles, and then you take that knowledge and you apply it to the next day. It's not a waste to struggle. It's a waste not to learn from the struggle.

So all the struggles that you've already had and all the times you've failed, that's a lot of data we can mine. That's a lot of good information that we can take with us, and pour it into this next journey of healing and doing it differently because you know what didn't work. And now you can begin to try something different to reset, to heal from the inside out. 

And, so, I'm really believing for those of you who are feeling stuck, that this is your year of healing in Jesus name. This is the year where God is going to take you to a new level, that you've never been before. If you are willing to partner with Him on the journey of healing.

When you say yes to healing, God will say yes in return. He never says no when we come to Him and say, "Lord, I have all this relational, emotional, psychological healing, help me. And He reaches out His hand and He's willing to help. And, so, I'm really believing that this is your year, and if you don't believe it, I'm believing it for you.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely, and once we take that first step, God doesn't waste anything. Sure, it's a journey, absolutely. God could just zap us, but I've never seen Him do that. He wants us to go through that journey with Him because He has so much to teach us in there. And we learn so much when we say yes to that journey. And then you begin to walk that with Him, and know He's in that with you. And as you just continue to make progress. Darkness turns into light, it's really special. And to know that He loves us that much, that He's willing to do that for us.

Debra: It's so special. You and I get the beautiful opportunity as counselors. I have an entire team of counselors. You have a team of counselors. I see my own clients; you see your own clients. It is the most beautiful thing to be a Christian counselor, walking with the Lord, and getting to watch people truly begin to walk in freedom. And that's how I know this is a reality. That's how I know because I see it with my own eyes every single day. I see the Lord work when people partner with Him, and it's incredible, and it's beautiful, and it's available to all of us.

Dr. Kim: And we agree, I cannot do what I do without the Lord.

Debra: Amen to that, Amen, we need His spirit. We need His power. We need His presence. We need His truth, all these things that we think that aren't true. I talk in the book about replacing our trauma with God's truth. The Bible says that, "You will know the truth and the truth will set you free." And I take that literally in my counseling sessions with my clients, in my own life, and I have seen it to be true.

The problem is we've never identified the lies. We've never even started identifying the lies. I thought I was believing truth. And we're living out of our trauma rather than out of God's truth. But no more, because this is the year of healing. I don't know if we can make that like the Chinese New Year, the Year of the Bear, the year of all those things. This is the year of the healing.

Dr. Kim: The year of reset, yes. And just think of someone, if they say, "Hey, I'm going to try this. I'm going to pick up this book." Just think where you could be a year from now.

Debra: Yes.

Dr. Kim: Just look where you could be a year from now, and you may not be totally there then, I get that. Because God may have a little bit more for you. But, my gosh, the difference it could make, you'd be a lot better.

Debra: Amen to that. And for some people, it might require the help of a counselor with them.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely.

Debra: Dr. Kim, you have resources. We have the Debra Fileta Counselors Network, and we are honored to partner with people on this journey of healing. So don't feel like you have to do it alone. In fact, feel like you can't do it alone because we weren't made to do it alone. Do it in community. Do it with the help of a counselor. But, ultimately, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Dr. Kim: You mentioned your counseling network. Tell people a little bit about that.

Debra: Yes, the Debra Fileta Counselors Network is a team of counselors, who are led and supervised and trained by me. And we do all our sessions via Zoom for personal or relational issues, anywhere where you're struggling in your individual life or your marriage. We've got reduced-rate counselors, for those who budget is an issue, and they can't afford a full rate appointment. And we just offer the best of psychology and counseling, but paired with the truth of God's Word. Our team is all Christians who love Jesus, first and foremost, but they're all licensed counselors as well. So they're educated and they've got the credibility. They're just really good people, and I'm honored to have a team working alongside of me to help people heal.

Dr. Kim: One reason I want to bring it up is because you guys are virtual, and you are on Zoom. And, so, somebody listening to this wherever they are, they have access. And they can find that by going where?

Debra: You can find that at debrafileta.com/counseling. And you can find all my books and resources, the podcast, pretty much everything at deborahfileta.com, f-i-l-e-t-a.com, debrafileta.com/counseling, and we pray that those resources can help you take the next step, no matter what season of life you might be in.

Dr. Kim: Well, that's awesome, and I love you as a counselor. I love the way you write and all of it. So last question; you have four kids, you're married. What are you enjoying about your life and your marriage right now?

Debra: Well, we are enjoying having fun, honestly, that's been the theme for me this past year. And you, probably, know this, Dr. Kim, when you have a serious job, you have to offset it with fun. And, so, we've been having a lot of fun with the kids. We're trying to be intentional.

We got a pool, recently, for them to hop in. And we're looking forward to just small, fun things, going out for ice cream, playing in the backyard, basketball games, and it has just been such a sweet season of being able to have fun. Our kids are ages two to twelve, so we're in the thick of the work. But also in the thick of the fun.

Dr. Kim: Yes, that's a big span between twelve and two.

Debra: It is, it really is.

Dr. Kim: Yes, that's really good. Well, the book is available everywhere. I would encourage you to pick it up, or order it, whichever way you get your books. And then check out everything Debra has at debrafileta.com. And Debra, thanks so much for spending time again with us. I love it every time you're here, I learn things and I know the people that listen to us learn a lot, too.

Debra: It's always my pleasure, Dr. Kim. I love you and your wife, and everything that you guys are doing. So thank you for having me.

Dr. Kim: Thank you.

[00:38:09] < Outro >

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