Healthy Self / Healthy Marriage: The Connection Between Emotional & Spiritual Health | Ep. 521
[00:00:00] < Intro >
Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage podcast. A place for honest conversations, and practical advice on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host Lindsay Few. On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling.
Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.
Spiritual and emotional health are really hard to separate. Our emotional health, or lack thereof, impacts our spiritual health. And if we aren't in tune with our own heart, it'll be really hard to let God go to work there.
Many of us don't have a great handle on how to do this. But it's really not as scary, or complicated, or as woo-woo, as it might sound. So let's see if today we can start to demystify the ideas of spiritual and emotional health.
So Dr. Kim, what are some of the issues that arise when we are not emotionally mature or healthy?
Dr. Kim: Well, I think, when we don't control our emotions, that always causes a problem. And if we don't have any restraint or then our emotions don't fit the situation, maybe. Our anger escalates, or it just comes out, we're just right there below the surface all the time. And instead of dealing with things, we let it come out and then we just let it spill over all the people around us.
And the other thing that seems to happen, I think, it makes it hard for us to compromise because we do that. I think we can detach from our spouse because we don't talk about our emotions. And, so, one of the things that, if we're not mature, it's hard for us to sit down and really talk about the real emotions.
We talk a lot, we have a chart in the office and it has anger, and then all these things that are behind anger. Because usually there's something that causes anger. And, so, what's behind that? And, so, we don't do that. We just stick with anger a lot of times because it's safer. We feel more control when we're angry.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And then, I think, we can get defensive. I think we can hold grudges. I think there are so many things, negative things, that come out of not being emotionally mature or healthy.
And, I think, to some extent, probably, all of us can get there a little bit. But I think some people that's kind of their life and they stay there, and they get stuck there. And then that affects everyone that's in their life to some extent and, especially, in a marriage relationship.
Lindsay: Mm, absolutely, that's really tough. I love what you said about compromise because it's interesting, I think, back to growing up with my sisters, and when we would just get so mad at each other over these tiny things.
Because we did not have any emotional maturity. And, so, it's like your emotion rises up and takes over in that moment, and you just shut down. You can't really function.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: And, so, that's not a very productive way or very fun. And I just remember my mom being at her wit’s end with us. Because we would just be bickering like we were cats and dogs because we just didn't have any maturity, yet, in that.
Dr. Kim: Yes, that's so true. I've even had people that threw tantrums, as a kid, that still throw tantrums as an adult. Now it may look a little different. Maybe they're slamming doors, and that kind of thing, instead of lying on the floor, and kicking, and yelling, and screaming, but it's, kind of, the same thing.
It's still just not controlling those emotions and expressing yourself. Trying to get your way of whatever's behind it and it's not healthy.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: How extreme it is? It's another control issue. If somebody is yelling, and screaming, and slamming doors. I mean, that doesn't make somebody be close to them at all.
Lindsay: No, that's going to send that pretty clear message. Well, and the other thing I think, too, as adults, we can go the opposite way and just shut down. Just, kind of, go silent treatment and that's not healthy either.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. I taught a class, one time, and I would ask them what silence meant to them. And it was amazing the different responses.
Some people would say, "Well, it means something is wrong and something is getting ready to happen." And then, like, this was a home where there was a lot of conflict, and if it's quiet they knew it was getting ready to blow. Somebody is getting ready to blow.
I don't think people say, "Oh, silence is peaceful." Well, it came from growing up in a home that was peaceful. And when it was quiet, nobody thought anything, everybody loved each other, and it was really relaxed. They didn't have to be saying something. And, so, I think, there's just a lot of things that can go into how we feel about that.
Lindsay: Yes, for sure. And, I think, one thing about this topic, too, our lack of self-awareness holds us back from being able to be intimate with anyone. And that includes God, and that includes our spouse, and other relationships.
And that's why when I was thinking about this topic, I can't take them apart because if you don't have any awareness of what's going on with you. Then you can't share that, and pour your heart out before God. You can't share that and connect with your spouse. And, so, I mean, I think, there's just so much that we have to learn to unpack if we want to grow in this.
Dr. Kim: And, I think, that's the key. Do we want to grow?
Do we want to change?
Unfortunately, sometimes, we get in some really negative behaviors, like what we're talking about.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, in our mind, they work for us, even though, they're unhealthy. And, so, sometimes it's really difficult for someone to say, "Hey, this isn't healthy." And they may know it's not real healthy, but it works for them in some way. It either gets them their way or it controls someone, or something like that. And, so, it's hard to get them to be motivated to want to make some of those changes.
Lindsay: Sure, yes, because if you haven't been somewhere different, you wouldn't even know how that would look.
Dr. Kim: No, and obviously, it's really frustrating for the spouse that is wanting something to be better.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, oh, for sure. Well, in this conversation, also, I've heard some research, recently, showing that most people, like a wide majority, could only identify three emotions. Which, I bet you know what those are, happy, sad, mad, that's it, that is all they had.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: And I was going through an experience, recently, where I was having to really be honest with myself and figure out what it was underneath the sad, mad. And I'm like, "Okay, there is something more here."
But like when you talked about anger. When I learned anger was a secondary emotion, that blew my mind. At that point, I was like, "What?" I thought anger was.... But, no, there is all kinds of things under there.
Dr. Kim: Exactly, and, I think, that's such a good point. What you said, "Well, okay, why am I mad?" And I'll ask that sometimes in counseling, "Okay, what's behind your mad?"
"What's behind your sadness?" And help them to understand. Because if we haven't, really, thought about that, or search that, probably, we're not going to know. I think that's great, what you said, we stick with those three because we can do that. But understanding why we're doing that is so important.
Lindsay: Yes. Well, because it does take some work. So I had to really puzzle out, "Okay, I'm disappointed. I feel disappointed." And it doesn't really sound that super deep, but it felt really vulnerable, to be like, "Oh, that means I have a hurt feeling and that's different than mad."
But it takes some slowing down, some reflection, and, so, a lot of times we don't. We'd rather just gloss over it, forget about it. Maybe turn on the screen, watch something because it takes some work.
Dr. Kim: Right, and not take the time to, really, deal with it. And, I think, too, just sitting down. Give yourself 10 minutes and pray, "God reveal what is behind this?" And let God guide you. Maybe you write while you're doing that and see what comes out.
Because I think if you get in that pattern you'll begin to understand yourself better, and you'll also be a lot more emotionally healthy. Because you'll be dealing with your emotions in a healthy way.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's good. Well, that leads us right into our next question. What are some of the barriers to growing in emotional health and maturity?
Dr. Kim: I just think that, maybe, we don't see the value in it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Maybe we think, like I said earlier, that it works for us. Maybe there was some trauma in our past that we haven't dealt with. Maybe there was some stuff from our family of origin. Maybe we didn't have a supportive parent, or there was some absent parent, or some things that went on there that have affected us.
And, so, a lot of those things, which, I think, in counseling, what I like to do with people is to help them understand why they're acting the way that they are. And a lot of times we'll go back to family of origin and some things in their past.
But I don't think it's good to just get stuck there. Then you bring that forward, "Okay, now, as an adult, what do you do to be healthy?" But, I think, those affect us, trauma, especially. There's so many things that can affect us in that.
And, so, maybe family of origin, trauma, things like that. Parents, family, that weren't emotionally or physically available for us, or even abuse, some of those things. All of those, I think, can keep us stuck until we deal with them.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, totally. I think, another one that I, kind of alluded to just a minute ago, was just not taking the time. Not feeling like it's worth taking the time or just really not wanting to because we don't want to go there. And, I think, sometimes I know, for myself, if I've done like social media fast or break or something like that. It is almost shocking, sometimes, the amount of feelings I start to feel when I don't have that quick distraction of a screen.
I remember the first time I did that, I was like, "What is wrong with me? Something is wrong." I thought I was having a breakdown because I had so many feelings that I usually would just, quickly, tune out, just very quickly.
And, so, taking the time, like you said, taking a little time. I think, another thing and this might be coming from having, in my household, I have a husband, a girl, and three boys. So we have a very male-driven environment here.
But I think that sometimes there's this, kind of, idea of emotional health is being sad, or sappy. Or that we have to get carried away, kumbayas in a circle or something weird. But what I've realized is that if we are not, actually, in tune with our emotions and what we're feeling. The feelings are not gone, they're still there.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: And we're actually spending a lot of energy either trying to like cover them or escape them, even if we never speak them, they're still there.
And, so, if we can just process them, pray through them, journal them, something like that, then it works itself out a little bit. And I've been really cognizant of that as a mom, especially to some boys, going, "You're saying you're not mad, but you're yelling." The feeling is there even if you're not admitting it, what can we do about this?
Dr. Kim: Well, I think, the fact that you're doing that with your kids, especially boys. Because sometimes I think it is harder for us just because we're boys or what culture does to us and everything.
But helping that the sooner a guy can understand that and understand himself emotionally more. It's going to be healthier for him. It's going to be healthier if he's at home for you, the parents, and everybody. And it's, certainly, going to be healthier when he meets a woman that he wants to spend the rest of his life with.
I have so many couples I work with that the guy never learned how to do that. And, so, 10 years into marriage he's trying to do that because he knows, "This ain't working the way I'm doing things."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So, I think, anything we can do to help our boys, grandsons, sons, to understand that is huge. The other thing is sometimes we feel like we can push them down, we'll just avoid them. And what I see happen there, there's an explosion coming.
Eventually you're just full and it just comes out in all kinds of things. And it may come out at something that is so minor that the people around you are going, "What? I was five minutes late for dinner and you're throwing up all over me and won't stop?"
So it's important to learn, one, to acknowledge them and then to deal with them, so they don't pile up inside of you.
Lindsay: Yes. I think that's really good. And that's what, I mean, for me, I'm a bit of a stuffer myself. So I try to like avoid the negative feelings by pushing them down.
And, so, I think, for me, learning to process through, like I was describing earlier. Okay, "What is this feeling?" It's disappointment or whatever, and that helps me to not hold those grudges. Because really grudges or bitterness is going to be a big part of those explosions. Because it feels like, "You've wronged me 10 times and this 11th one was a straw that broke the camel's back."
But if we had processed through and forgiven or worked through, or if I had had the courage to say, "That hurt my feelings can we talk about it?" It wouldn't have built up like that. But that takes a lot of vulnerability. It's not easy to do, especially, if you've never seen somebody do it.
Dr. Kim: Right, if you haven't had it modeled for you at all.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So do you think, Lindsay, that over time that has become easier for you to do that, than when you first started?
Lindsay: Yes, absolutely. At first, I mean, I'm just thinking specifically in marriage. When Brian would say, "I feel like you've got a grudge."
I would say, "No, I don't. What are you talking about? No, I don't." And I really didn't see it. I wasn't trying to be dishonest, I just didn't see it because I'd stuffed it down so far, it was buried.
Dr. Kim: It's like, "No I don't."
Lindsay: "I am fine."
Dr. Kim: Yes, exactly.
Lindsay: Yes, it's like, "No, it's still there. It's coming out sideways now."
Dr. Kim: No, exactly, it does. It just can go all over the place and there are those barriers, and I've never seen a barrier that could not be broken down if we're willing to do it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, like you said, it does take work. But, I think, what I hear you saying, once you got in the pattern of doing that, it became more natural to do it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And it, probably, becomes easier as you go along because you’re understanding yourself more.
Lindsay: Yes, absolutely. And, also, having that, the fear of trying that process, at first, because it's just unknown. And, so, at first, kind of, airing that not so nice feeling saying, "My feelings are hurt and I want to talk to you about it."
I feel like a lot of times, I would've avoided that thinking. That's like, "Oh, it's going to be a confrontation or an argument." But, in reality, it's, probably, going to prevent an argument or confrontation.
Dr. Kim: I agree. And, I think, if you got a spouse, like you do, that wants the marriage to be good. That wants both of you to be healthy. If you give them that opportunity, I think, they're going to respond to it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And I think it's something not to be afraid of. And, so, if you do, and your spouse doesn't respond, then maybe counseling is the next step to help y'all get there. But, I think, a lot of times the spouse will respond in a good way.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes. And, I think, that's where some of the family of origin or maybe a friend, a past trauma or past relationships can just scare us into not trying.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely, yes, and, especially, if you've been in a relationship with someone that was maybe gaslighting you, narcissistic, things we've talked about on other podcasts, sure. And, I think, it's realizing that if you're in a different relationship, not to put all those attributes on that person.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Give that person a chance to be who they want to be in the relationship, and see how that goes.
Lindsay: Yes, that's really good. So what are some of the steps that you have seen help people grow emotionally?
Dr. Kim: Well, kind of, what we just talked about. Identifying the root cause, I think, is so important, Because, like I said earlier, anger is so easy to stick with because we feel in control.
So what is the root cause?
What's behind that?
What did this person do?
Were your feelings hurt?
And sometimes, I think, as guys, that's one of the hardest things to admit, that our feelings were hurt by our spouse. But they are at times, and it's okay to say that, and it's okay to give that information to your spouse. Because if you're both working on your marriage I want to know that. If I hurt Nancy's feelings, I want to know it. I think she feels the same way.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I think, those kind of things. I think journaling your thoughts and emotions can help, as far as helping you grow. Just taking the time, like you were saying, to think through that. Prayer, I think, involving God in it. God wants us to be healthy. He knows us better than we know ourselves. So when we invite Him into that space, I think, He does amazing things.
And it may just be the awareness, or helping us understand of each other, or bringing something to light from the past that really affected you. In a way that you didn't think it did, or maybe you had kind of buried it a little bit. And, so, involving God into that in prayer, I think, really helps. And then growing emotionally healthy is really building that relationship.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Digging into that relationship with your spouse, quality time with your spouse, those kind of things. But, I think, figuring out what's behind it is so important and then going through it, and letting God work in it. And then, "How do I change? How do I grow now that I have this information?"
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And one thing that's really interesting to me about following Jesus, and trying to grow more spiritually healthy. I feel like it's important to remember that God does not force our growth, we have to allow Him.
He is a God who allows us to make our choices, and He will spark growth, and He will give the strength and the Spirit does the work. But if we just shut Him out of things, He will not always dig in there.
Sometimes He might bring something into the light. But a lot of times, if you're shutting Him down, you're not going to grow there. And, so, I think, the process is like you're talking about, and then just being really honest in prayer. Looking in the Psalms for there's a lot of emotions there, all kinds of stuff.
Dr. Kim: Exactly. Yes, you can see David get mad at God and all kinds of things. And what gave me the freedom is that God is going to be there no matter what our emotion is and how we come to Him, and He's there for us. And He can change that anger into something that's different than that, something healthier as that.
I think, too, sometimes we feel like our emotions are so out of control, "What does God even care about me?"
"Why would I even go to him?" And, I think, just saying, don't be afraid to go to God. That He is always there for you no matter what you've done or where you've been, and He wants things to be better for you. And just not to be afraid of that because ultimately He's the one who really provides a real healing.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's really good. There's one more specific practice that I have found really helpful that I learned from Pete and Geri Scazzero at Emotionally Healthy Discipleship.
They're at emotionallyhealthy.org and I'll link that in the show notes. Because they've been so good and helpful. I love their podcast and they've a lot of good stuff, but there's just a really simple practice, it's a little more structured. But when you take a couple minutes, I think, you'll have like two minutes per quadrant.
So you're going to take a piece of paper, draw a line. Cross down the middle, so it's four quadrants, and take two minutes on each quadrant. And the first one write down anything that's making you feel sad, anything making you feel anxious, anything you're looking forward to. What's the fourth one? Sad, angry, anxious, and what you're looking forward to.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: So in that process, sometimes you sit down and you're like, "Oh, I don't feel that." But if you set that two-minute timer, and you wait those two minutes, things might start to flow. Two minutes is a little longer than you think when you're just sitting with your thoughts.
Dr. Kim: It could be forever.
Lindsay: That's a great start.
Dr. Kim: Yes, it's amazing how fast it can go sometimes. And sometimes when you're doing something like that. Our pastor, this is a little aside, but it ties in because I think it was healthy. Our pastor challenged us to spend five minutes a day, with our God in silence.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And the first time, oh, my gosh, five minutes I'm like, "Are you kidding me? This is going on, I've been here an hour and a half." I have to be anywhere else. So the first time I didn't do really well because I kept looking at my clock all the time. Next time I just set the alarm for five minutes, set it aside, and then just tried to begin. And it was a process, it took hard.
So two minutes can seem long too. I love everything that Pete does, I think, that's a great tool to give us, to begin to come up with, to understand ourselves better, and to give God more to work with. To know what to go to God in prayer with.
Lindsay: Yes, absolutely.
[00:21:20] < Music >
Announcer: Are you and your spouse as unified as you would like to be? We know it takes some work to get on the same page and it, definitely, takes work to stay there. And that's why we created our Couples Unity Building Journal.
This journal is designed to help you take a real, honest look at key areas of your marriage. And work together to communicate effectively and get unified. With this resource, you'll spend time journaling, praying, and then discussing your entries together.
This resource is a 26-page PDF with nine sections, on common pain points that marriages struggle with. Each section has questions to reflect on, pray about, and answer, and then to discuss with your spouse. So you get closer and more unified on the things that matter.
This edifying resource is our gift to say thank you for your donation of any amount. To help more people around the world experience God's awesome plan for their marriage. This resource is available for a donation of any amount at the link in our show notes.
[00:22:25] < Music >
Lindsay: If we do start growing emotionally, more healthy, how's that going to impact our marriage?
Dr. Kim: Well, I hope it's going to do it in a positive way. I think, it's going to improve your closeness. I think, it's going to improve your intimacy, both physical and just emotional. I think, there's going to be trust there that maybe wasn't there. It's just so many healthy things.
I mean, when you really stand at the altar, I did a wedding last week. And I love doing weddings because it's helped me get in touch more, again, with why Nancy and I are married.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And just the vows of what we commit to at that time. And it helps us get back to being able to live out those vows that we committed to, the day we stood at the altar together. And, so, when we get back to some of those things, I think, we value our relationship better. We feel we're healthier in it and it becomes more of what we really wanted it to be.
You didn't get married to fight with somebody the rest of your life, or to be unhealthy with, or to get mostly detached from. No, you got married to this person to do life with for the rest of your life.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, and, I think, that you're right, that's going to build the trust. We're always talking about the trust is like a good foundation for almost everything else. If you can trust each other with these feelings, and with sharing these types of things that is vulnerable and intimate, so that's going to grow all your intimacy.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I can remember the first time I was vulnerable in prayer with Nancy. Nancy had been vulnerable, when we do our prayer together, she'd been vulnerable for a long time. She's so far ahead of me spiritually and still is.
So the first time I was vulnerable in prayer, and I finished, I just had this panic feeling inside. "I can't believe, I was just vulnerable. She is going to think I'm a wimp." I opened my eyes and she had tears in her eyes and I thought, "Okay, I can do this." But it wasn't easy. And I know some women struggle with that too.
My experience, in counseling is, as men we struggle with it more than our wives do. It can be the opposite, sure. But I think men, I don't know, we just have this stigma or this way we want to portray ourselves, and not be vulnerable, or not feeling. And that's not a sign of weakness that's a sign of health. And it's a sign that you are willing to go deep within yourself, and then to share that deepness with your spouse. And your spouse is going to be like she becomes your cheerleader, she is going to be so excited.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, absolutely. I mean, just from, again, it's obviously individual. But I would say, men, your wife wants to know you have emotions. She wants to know they're in there. She might be wondering, "Is he, or is anybody home?" And, so, to give her that glimpse and that honesty, she'll be doing like a dance over there. She'll be so excited. Just because it's so helpful to know, like, "I'm not the only one who has these."
You're not going to have the same feelings, and that's fine. But to be able to connect in that way, and you don't have to do that all the time. But when it's pertinent and when it's relevant, I mean that is so life-giving, I think, as a woman to know, "You're willing to share that with me, I know that's hard. I know that because it's hard for me." And, so, it's something that's very connecting and it's very intimate. It builds that relationship in a really healthy way.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I'm glad, and you said something that I think it's really important, that you don't have to go there every day. I think what I wanted to do is to get where we could go there every day if we needed to.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Because a lot of days, we're just, "What's going on?" This kind of stuff. And then, "What are we going to pray about?"
But there's times that you want to be able to go deep and talk about your emotions, and your feelings, and try to understand where you are with that, and to share that with your spouse. So that they can walk beside you. So they can pray with and for you. And that continues to build all those things that we want in a marriage relationship that connect us.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good stuff. So making the transition from the emotional side of things, to the spiritual side of things. What are things that are parts of our spiritual health and how does it tie into the emotional?
Dr. Kim: Well, I think, when we're healthy emotional, it does help, it goes both ways, they're both important. If I'm healthy spiritually, I think it helps me be better emotionally. Because I'm more in connection with God. I'm more connected with who I am and who He created to be, and those kind of things.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I think that it, also, then gives us more peace. I think, it gives us hope. I think, that's what I see where the spiritual component is when we're down about our emotions, when we're stuck, and we're maybe sad, or depressed, or whatever is going on, anger, that there is always hope. And, I think, the spiritual side of that brings out the hope that wherever we are God has an answer for it.
And, yes, it may take work. I mean, God could just zap us and change it. But it seems, to me, my experience is that He walks us through the process. Because I think we've learned more by going through it than Him just magically doing it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Now, and at times, I wish He'd do it the other way, but I also know that I learn more, and grow more when He walks through it with me. And, so, I think that's there and, so, it gives us hope, and it helps closer relationship with Him.
I think our spouse seeing us rely on God, as we make those changes, it just strengthens your marriage and your relationship. And, I think in turn, then, it allows you, at some point, to come aside somebody else that's struggling in the same way.
And, I think, the more of us guys that can do that, and women too, but, I think, women do it better than we do. I think it gives us the opportunity, then, to what God can use this in somebody else's life.
Which, to me, that's how God redeems everything. He heals us and helps us get healthy, and then He brings somebody in our life that needs what God just did with us. That we can walk with that person, with God, through what they're going through.
Lindsay: Yes, that's cool, and that's, really, hopeful, too, because it's not wasted.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. God just doesn't waste things, and He will equip you. Sometimes, "Oh my gosh, I might have to do." Yes, well, if God brings someone in your life. He's going to also give you the answers and whatever you need to do in that person's life that God wants you to do.
Lindsay: Yes, that's true, and it might take a little bit of bravery, but you can take that step at that point.
Dr. Kim: Yes, it is. Just step out in faith at times. And then, which is so cool when you do that. I mean, I remember saying, you know, my heart is beating fast, and my mouth is dry, and I still say something. And then afterwards, I think, "Oh, yes, that was what God wanted me to do." And it's so good afterwards.
Lindsay: Yes, well, and then it's like if you've ever been on the other side, you're like, "I think God's telling me to do this, but I don't want to do it." And then you don't and you're like, "Oh, man!" You just realize, later, even if it's something that seems really small. Like you're saying, "Go talk to that person." Whatever it is, if you don't do it that's a terrible feeling. It's so much worse.
Dr. Kim: Yes, our pastor even talked about a story one time and he was driving, and there was a guy on the side of the road. And he said God kept telling him to turn around, and he didn't turn around. And he said, "I always wonder what I missed."
Lindsay: Absolutely.
Dr. Kim: And I thought it was such a good vivid description, I think, we all have that. And, so, I think, if God prompts there's something good can come for us too.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And even though we think, "What in the world am I doing?
"I got to be home."
"I got to do this and that."
Sometimes, though, I love the story when Jesus was going to, I guess, to raise Lazarus. No it was the little girl that was ill. And, so, he stopped with a woman who had touched Him and that interruption, and He spent time with her, and He healed her. And then He went on to the little boy or girl had died and Jesus went on to heal them too.
So, I think, Jesus shows that there are times that interruptions are important. And that those interruptions, take advantage of that, how God can use that too.
Lindsay: Yes, and one, I love that. That goes along with our theme here of this stuff. It feels like it's going to take a lot of time and it feels like it's going to be awkward or uncomfortable, but there's a lot of good on the other side.
Dr. Kim: So just encourage people, I know it's not easy.
Lindsay: Yep. Yes, it's not.
Dr. Kim: It's not been easy for me.
Lindsay: It's not. Well, and I think, too, and this goes back to our verse that I've been having to quote every part of this health series is Mark 12. It talks about, "You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength." And then flowing from that is the next command. "Love your neighbor as yourself."
And you can't separate these because you can't love your neighbor, you can't love the people around you, if you don't know how to love. And you learn how to love when you love God with all of your being. So it talks about, in that verse, heart, soul, mind, and strength. It's all interconnected because God designed it that way.
Dr. Kim: I had a guy tell me one time that, "Love the Lord with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul, and do whatever you want." And at first I went, and I thought, "Well, of course, if I'm loving God that way. What I want to do is going to reflect my relationship with Him." And I thought that was cool.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: It's just like God gets us free will, but He can really help us use it in good ways and healthy ways.
Lindsay: Yes, that's so true. And that is so like indicative, too, of like when Jesus says, "My yoke is easy, my burden is light." It's like we're going to talk about this stuff that sounds hard, and we're acknowledging it is hard. But it's hard in the way of the yoke of Jesus like, "Okay, you might not want to take that on, but when you do you'll find that freedom." That you, really, wouldn't trade for anything.
Dr. Kim: I know. It's just taking that first step.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And, so, another way I think that this does tie in from the spiritual to emotional, is something that I alluded to a couple times already. But if you don't know what's going on in your heart, how are you going to let God into that? And how are you going to grow through that?
Because, I think, what we do sometimes we just want to separate things. Like, "Okay, well, I'm having a really hard time, but I don't know if God cares about that." Or, "I don't know if it's wrong to feel this way or if I should just get over it or whatever." But He already knows. He already knows what's in your heart. He already knows how that situation is going to resolve. He knows everything.
So just to go ahead and open up about that. And I know some people, sometimes, I'm like, "I don't know if I should journal this because other people live in my house too. And I don't want them to open that journal, necessarily, and find their names in there." But it's just there's something to that, if we're working through that stuff, then we can let it go.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: We can just let it go.
Dr. Kim: And writing seems to be so. Anyhow, use a little code, if you need to, if you're afraid somebody's going to grab it that only you and God know what the code means.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, and you can always write it, and delete it, tear it out, whatever you got to do, this processing does help. So what are some of the best ways to grow more spiritually healthy?
Dr. Kim: I think, the basics, for me, is what keeps me spiritually healthy, and when I don't do them I don't feel as healthy as I should. So it's prayer. It's Bible reading plans, YouVersion plans. It's being in church. Worship is so important to me.
I think, that at national averages couples who say they're Christian or families that go to church one out of four Sundays, I don't think that's enough. I just think we need to be there. And, seriously, you're only talking about an hour or so a week.
And, so, figure it out or go to a church that has evening services or something that allows you, to consistently, to be in church. And then being around other believers. Whether it's a small group, or people you hang out with, or things that you do.
But I think all of those things help us grow spiritually. Help us have others walk with us, connect us with God, and all of that together, I think helps us to have a better spiritual health.
Lindsay: Yes, absolutely, that's really good. I agree, I think, you're right that going to church once a month isn't enough. I mean, you're catching a little bit. But part of the deal with going to church is being around other people who are going through things.
Getting to know them, talking through what everyone's going through, and that requires some work too. I mean, it's like going through the trouble of sharing what's going on with you being honest about it. Being willing to stick with people when they're going through some kind of messy stuff.
I know in small group we're in right now, we have parents of toddlers, parents of teens, parents of grown children, who are out of the house. And that is the coolest thing because if you're just in one stage, you might think like, "Oh, it's going to be so easy when you get to the next stage." Or whatever thing it is, but it's just humbling.
We all look around and we're like, "Okay, we've all got real life." Everyone is living real life. And sometimes it's going to look easy, sometimes it's not. But the one thing I love about church is that everyone's there because they recognize to some degree that they need Jesus.
And, so, I think, a lot of times we might look around and go, "These people look like they've got it all together." And I don't think anyone's there thinking that, somebody might be. But, I think, for the most part, when I talk to people it's like, "I'm here because I know I'm a sinner. I know I need some help."
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: And, so, I think, we have to let those prejudgments go. If they're looking nice that day, let them look nice and have that good day because that's not the whole picture. Just you’ve got to be willing to get in there and learn about people, and that takes time, too.
Dr. Kim: Sure. And if we had it all together, we wouldn't need church.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: But we don't, and we do.
Lindsay: Yes, we do. And the only kind of church there is, is a church with people in it. So it's going to be a bit of a mess. It's just the only option, we're all sinners.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and I've talked to a couple of people, this has come up a couple of times, the last couple of months. The people that I've talked to that were in churches, where there was some conflict or some turmoil. And people, whether it's they're mad at the preacher or that kind of stuff, and this one guy said, "I just can't worship there."
I said, "It's also okay to leave. Pray about it and God may just. Because if you can't worship there, if things have happened in that church, find a church that you can't worship in. Unless you feel God is saying, 'Stay here.'"
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And then if we just stay there until it gets worse and worse, and then all of a sudden, "No, we're not going anywhere."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, I think, knowing it's okay to find another church home, if you need to that's healthy, and it's healthy for you.
Lindsay: Yes, I think, wherever you're going to be able to engage more is a good place to be. Because I know sometimes people come to church kind of kicking and screaming. They don't want to be there, you can see it all over their face. You're like, "Well, I'm glad you're here, but it doesn't seem like you want to be here."
And, so, if you're entering into a church with that kind of mindset, you might need to figure out what's going on here. Because you might need to talk to some of your friends or leaders. To see, "Is there something going on that I'm bringing to the table, as a person attending church. Or do I just need to find another place to go.?
Because I've seen someone sit in their chair with crossed arms, and a scowl, and it's like, I mean, "God can do anything. But if you are coming in there determined to hate it, it's, probably, not going to be great."
Dr. Kim: No. If you haven't taken your sunglasses off and you're sitting there with the frown, and your arms crossed, you're, probably, not in exactly the right mood to be in church that day.
Lindsay: It's so true. I mean, I'm praying for you, if that's you.
Dr. Kim: And any of us can get there. And I know that, if I should say, there's all kinds of reasons people have struggled with church. Maybe it's growing up as a family or a bad experience in that church.
But just remember what Lindsay said, the church is made of people. We're all sinners, so the church is not going to be perfect. And don't expect it to be. don't put those labels onto God because that's not Him. It's fallen people, just like us, that are in that church.
Lindsay: Yes. I grew up in a ministry household and I'm married to a pastor, so I've seen every angle of it. And I know, I've seen all kinds of things, but the truth is Jesus loves the church, that's His bride. You can't love Jesus and not love the church.
Dr. Kim: Exactly.
Lindsay: So that's where it leaves us.
Dr. Kim: Yes, exactly.
Lindsay: Yes. So, I agree, there's reading the Word. I think, one thing people run into with not getting into Scripture is just feeling some, sort of, not knowing how to. And that's where things like YouVersion Plans are really good.
There are some great podcasts on YouVersion, too, that unpack the Bible. And then, also, I think, people run into guilt. They say, "Oh, I should. I really should." And, I think, if that's you, then, I think, starting small can be really good. Start with one Proverb, or one Psalm, or even one verse.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Just getting in the Word any is better than never, because you just feel so behind or so ashamed.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I'm going to plug something else because I love it. And it's a Bible Project that these two guys I know are doing. And that they make the Bible about as simple as I've ever seen it, and as clear on things, and it's an app, and you can go there.
They also have A Year Through the Bible Reading Plan. But you can go there and you can pick any book in the Bible, and put it in there. And they're just about through with every book, I think, they're getting close anyway.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And the way they lay that out, especially, what I've really enjoyed is some of the Prophets, and the New Testament, and how they help us see. Because I would just kind of go, "Oh, it seems like the same thing over and over."
Well, it kind of is but kind of isn't. And, so, I think, it gives you deeper understanding. And, so, it's a great tool that Nancy and I have loved since we got started using it, probably, the first of this year for some things.
Lindsay: Yes, I agree, I like that one a lot. That's really helpful, that's cool. And, I think, one other thing with that one great thing about the Bible Project is it reminds me of what the Bible is really about. A lot of times I'm approaching it because I want to know. Like, "God, what do you want me to do?"
"God, what do you have for me?"
But the Bible Project, when I see it in context, it reminds me He has a lot bigger picture going on here. There's a lot we don't know, there's a lot we don't see.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: And, so, it's cool to see they kind of tie some of the things together, if that makes sense a little more.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely, and they just do a great job. They're two guys that do it. Their voices, the way they portray things are awesome.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, it's really good. I'll put that just a little information about that in the shownotes too, so people can see that.
Dr. Kim: It's fun.
Lindsay: So if we are doing these steps, what are some markers that give us evidence that we're actually growing spiritually?
Dr. Kim: Well, there's, probably, a lot. But I just put it all in one, for me, and that's trusting God. And the more that I learn to trust God, the more doors that opens up in my relationship with Him, and relationship with others, and it gives me a confidence.
It gives me, I don't know, maybe a big sense of security because I've sought God, and I know He's not going to guide me in the wrong way. It allows me to become more healthy because He's helping me become more healthy. So, I think, just that trusting in Him at a deeper and deeper level.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, I think, it's something we continue to do our whole life, and we get off path at times and get back on. But I think the more we do those things, the more our trust builds with God. And, to me, that's just makes all the difference in the world.
Lindsay: Yes, that is really good. That really does. I, also, think of the Fruits of the Spirit.
Dr. Kim: Wow, that's good.
Lindsay: Love
Joy
Peace
Patience
Kindness
Faithfulness
Gentleness
Goodness
And Self-control.
And it's a really slow process. It might take, look back in six months or in a year and be like, "Oh, I did grow.” It's not instant.
Dr. Kim: That's why I think journaling's helpful. Because you can look back at the end of the year and say, "Oh, I am different than I was last January, this January."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's good. For me, that's the best way is looking back.
Dr. Kim: And sometimes we don't realize all that God's doing. Because most of the times it's a lot of baby steps. Sometimes it's the big thing, and, obviously, that those are the markers in our life that we remember.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: But most of the growth I've found has been just a day at a time. Continue to seek Him, and over time you grow in your relationship with Him.
Lindsay: Yes, and sometimes it's, actually, more frustrating. I think sometimes you feel like you're going backwards because you're more aware now.
Dr. Kim: Yes, that's true.
Lindsay: And, so, that can be frustrating, but that doesn't mean it's true. It doesn't mean you are going backwards, it's just awareness.
Dr. Kim: And I love you brought the Fruit of the Spirit. I think, sometimes picking one of those and just praying about that one, and asking God to build that into your life. The way you want Him to, those are some good ways to grow spiritually.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And it's because those are also things that are so important to us in our life, and our relationships.
Lindsay: Yes, and they help all of our relationships too. And, I think, one final marker of growing is more love of God. More love of His Word. More love of the church because those are the things that we know Jesus values. We know relationship and love of the father. Love of holiness. Love of the Scripture, and love of church, and love of people, are very important to God. And, so, when we're growing in loving what He loves, then that means we're going to be more like Him, even if it's really slow.
Dr. Kim: Right, exactly, and don't compare. If there's somebody else you're even talking to or if they're growing faster than you, that's okay. God will get you where He wants you to be, and we don't all grow at the same time. And, so, don't let that bother you. Just like I said if I let it bother me that Nancy was farther ahead than me and given up, I wouldn't be who I am today, and one day I'm going to catch her.
Lindsay: You're going to win in marriage. I don't know.
Dr. Kim: I know. But it's fun, I think, that one of the real blessings in marriage is when you are growing spiritually together. And you're sharing that, and you're seeing that in each other, and that's a lot of fun. And, I think, it also changes your life.
Lindsay: Absolutely. I don't think that anything is more exciting than having that trusting God, and just seeing Him work in different parts of the world and life, it's really exciting.
Dr. Kim: It is. In the craziness of our world, seeing that just, to me, changes everything. I don't have to worry about all this stuff that's happening. I can do the things I can do. I can pray about things, but I know God is still in control and He's got a plan for me. So I got to keep doing my part of what He has planned for me.
Lindsay: Yes, that's so good. Yes, so this has been a really encouraging conversation, Dr. Kim, about emotional and spiritual health. What is the final word of advice you would leave us with today?
Dr. Kim: Well, I hope it makes you think, as you listen to this. I hope that if there is some emotional things that you feel, "Oh, [Inaudible 00:46:09] kind of live there." Or that you make the next step to try to begin to deal with that, some of the things we talked about earlier in the podcast.
And then, also, working on your spiritual health. I think that's something we have to consistently do. And I have so many people that I've counseled that said, "I used to pray every day."
"I used to read my Bible every day."
"I used to go to church."
And I'll say, "What was your life, then?"
"Oh, it was so much better."
And, I'd say, "Yes." There's some reason that we can all fall off of that. And, so, I think knowing to continue grow spiritually, and how that affects us emotionally, just continue to do those things. I think it's a consistency day after day doing those things that brings the healing, and that brings the trust, brings life in a way that only God can bring it to us.
Lindsay: Hmm, yes, that's good. That's a great encouragement. So as we're going to close out this week's episode, we have our fun new feature that I'm really enjoying, and, so, fun to see these questions. But we have an anonymous question from one of our audience members.
And I just want to let you know if you have a question you'd like to hear Dr. Kim answer on the podcast. If you're subscribed to The One Thing to Grow Your Marriage Daily Email. There is a place there to submit a question anonymously, that Dr. Kim can then possibly be able to answer on the podcast.
So this week's anonymous reader question is, "This is great information and it is needed for my marriage. I read it every day, but, honestly, I don't always apply it. I send it to my husband who never reads it and could care less. So it takes away my motivation sometimes." Dr. Kim, what would you say to this person?
Dr. Kim: No, that's frustrating. I totally understand that is and, I think, they're referring to The One Thing where we give people something they can do that day for their marriage. I would say this: continue to do what God wants you to do. And, I think, continue to persevere. Continue to grow yourself. Ask God to help you apply it.
You said that you read it every day, but you don't always apply it. Ask God to continue to help you apply it. In other words, what I'm saying is not so much to look at your spouse, but to look at God.
"Okay, God, what do you want me to do? How do you want me to grow as a wife or a husband in that situation?" And then you continue to invite your husband. I think you model it. You don't nag him. You don't badger him. You don't quit cooking dinner for him because he won't read The One Thing.
You continue to be the wife that God wants you to be. And, to me, there's a joy and a peace in that obedience, even, whether your spouse responds or not. You'll know, at the end of every day, that "With God's help, I did the best I could today."
And then you continue to invite your spouse in and say, "Hey, this was a great One Thing today." Maybe you say, "This looks great, One Thing I read a couple days ago, and that's why I did this, this, and this, and I hope you enjoyed that. I hope you received that."
And just beginning to model that and, hopefully, and pray that he will want to join you in that. Because the couples I see that they're both doing The One Thing are really having fun with it, and their marriage is growing. Just encourage this person, don't give up. Persevere, do what God wants you to do.
Lindsay: That's good. That's really good.
Dr. Kim: So if you enjoyed today's podcast, take a minute to leave a rating and review, it would mean so much to us. Follow the link in our show notes to leave an iTunes review. That is one of the best ways for people to see the show that haven't seen it yet, which we want to do.
There's a lot of marriage content out there, and we're passionate about bringing God's purpose for marriage into the podcast space. That's why we do what we do. You can help us make that happen. If you benefit from this, please share it, review it, it will make such a difference for us. Thank you.
Lindsay: Yes, we do appreciate that. And this week, we'll also make sure we link to all the resources we mentioned in today's show. Make sure to reach out to us at info@awesomemarriage.com. If there's anything you need from us, we love hearing from you.
Thank you for listening and for sharing your time with us today. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage today.
[00:50:24] < Music >
Announcer: Thanks for listening to The Awesome Marriage podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the Ministry of Awesome Marriage and produced by Lindsay Few, with music by Noah Copeland.
If you haven't signed up for Dr. Kim's Weekly Marriage Multiplier Email, we encourage you to do so today. Marriage is hard and life is busy, which is why we need real, practical reminders of ways to build an awesome marriage.
Sign up today to get this quick and compelling email from Dr. Kim each week. If you enjoyed this content, share the podcast with a friend.
[00:51:00] < Outro >