Healthy Self / Healthy Marriage: Mental Health & Your Marriage | Ep. 522
[00:00:00] < Intro >
Lindsay: Welcome, to The Awesome Marriage podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice, on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host, Lindsay Few.
On the show will be our host. Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.
Today on The Awesome Marriage podcast, we are continuing to talk about healthy self and healthy marriage. Our mental health impacts every part of life. So it, certainly, will impact our marriage. And it can often be easy to neglect our mental health unless it is screaming for our attention.
But wherever you are today, we believe that God desires for you to thrive in mental health. This is an ongoing piece of health to tend to, and, Dr. Kim, I'm looking forward to hearing your take on this as a seasoned Christian counselor. So what are some signs that your mental health is not in a great place?
Dr. Kim: Yes, it's such a good question. I was looking at some things, and the National Alliance on Mental Health says that, "One in five adults every year will have some kind of mental illness." So that is a lot. And that the same statistic is for kids all over the world, "One in five." Sometimes, kids, it's not as easy to determine.
But, I think, the whole idea of mental health is something that a lot of us will have to deal with at some point or other in our marriage. Nancy and I, both, had severe depression, at times, in our marriage. And, so, I guess, my experience is not only from counseling people, but also the things that we've been through with that too.
So some of the signs, I think, if you look at mood changes. That's when I can have some of the seasonal depression, and that's what Nancy sees in me. Because I'm usually light and happy, I'm doing silly things, and anything I can do to make her laugh. And when I'm not doing that she knows that something's a little off there.
Maybe you're changing your lifestyle, your health. Maybe you're not sleeping like you would. Maybe, all of a sudden, you're not eating right. You're eating more junk food all the time. You used to exercise and you're not, I think, those can be signs to look for.
If you begin to withdraw from people or things that you would usually enjoy. Maybe you're, like, having a good friend and you have lunch every Tuesday for a long time. And you start finding excuses not to go and you begin to withdraw somewhat.
And then just the way you view life, yourself and the world, everything around you. So, I think, it's really when you're doing some things different than what your normal is. And, sometimes, I think a spouse or a close friend will notice that, or a parent will notice that before you do sometimes. Because, sometimes, I think, we just, all of a sudden, can fall into it.
I think most of us, in my situation, is we kind of gradually ease into it. Which is like the frog and the boiling pot of water. If you put them in when it's not boiling we kind of stayed there, we don't really realize what's going on.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's a good point. I've heard a couple of other indicators which are like if every day is a bad day. Or if you are consistently dissatisfied, or unhappy, or just have a gotten more of a short fuse and are irritated with people. Do you think those sound true?
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. I think that short fuse is something I have to watch. Because when I get irritable or I'm not whatever, I can get short. So that's a sign, I think, I'm more aware of the signs now. Depression's been kind of a thing in our family. Off and on my mom had it some but she fought and she was through it, always been that.
That's kind of what I've always done and it hadn't been like it's been pervasive. But I've had two or three times in my life that it's been rough. But, yes, I think all of those things are signs that definitely something is different.
Lindsay: Yes, so, if you're seeing some changes and things just aren't quite right, those are good signs.
Dr. Kim: And I think in a marriage situation, having the relationship open enough that you can talk about those things. The spouse feels comfortable in saying, "Hey, I noticed that you've made some changes. You haven't worked out in two months and you seem to not be sleeping well. And you eat what I fix, which is healthy, but then I see you digging in the Oreos or something all the time, or eating some unhealthy things, or that you're withdrawing." And a friend says, "Hey, I miss your friendship and you've just withdrawn from that." So listen to the people around you too.
Lindsay: That's good.
Dr. Kim: Be aware of yourself, and then listen to the people that care about you. Not everybody but the people that you know really care about you.
Lindsay: Yes, that's really good. So what are some of the barriers that could prevent us from being in our best health mentally?
Dr. Kim: I think we've got to watch our environment. I think we've got to watch what we watch and what we read. I think too many people have gotten addicted to watching news all the time. That, that goes along with what they believe, whether it's right or left, and I've told some people quit.
Keep up with what's going on in the world, but right now you don't have to listen to everybody's opinion about everything right now. It's not healthy for you. You've got to get healthy. Stay informed, but get off of that. You don't need be sitting there for five hours a day, watching people analyze what's going on in the world, and have a bias.
I mean, and I think we have to realize most news channels have bias to what they believe. And, so, that's what you're going to hear, and we, usually, don't listen to both sides.
And, so, some news stations are there to make money and, I think, sometimes we forget about that. They want us to feel like they're there to inform us, and they are to an extent.
But I don't think there's the, well, this is just my opinion, I don't think there's the purity in journalism like there was at one time. And, so, I think, we have to be cautious of that and not take in too much of that. I had a guy that was a veteran from the Vietnam War. And this was back, probably Gulf War or something like that and he was retired, and he was watching it all the time. And he came in and told me that and I said, "You got to quit watching that."
I mean, he was depressed. He was having some flashback stuff and he had just immersed himself in that. And I said, "Quit it. Don't watch that for the next week and when you come in, let's see if there's a difference." And he didn't watch it and he just looked like a different person when he walked in.
Lindsay: Wow.
Dr. Kim: So I think you've got to be cautious of that, of what we take in. And, I think, there's so much of that out there now or conspiracy theories, and I'm not criticizing anybody. I'm just saying, if you immerse yourself in too much you don't have balance, and it's not going to be good for you. But if you can balance it, fine, watch something for 30 minutes a day. And, I think, God's got too much for us to keep us in front of the TV all the time.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, I agree.
Dr. Kim: I think another barrier is not seeing yourself as God sees you. That He does love you. That He does care for you. That He does have a plan for your life. And, I think, when we lose sight of that, then, I think, we lose our compass. We lose our sense of direction. And, so, I think, that keeps us from having good mental health.
I think not working through past issues. And, I think, some of you, you've had trauma or things in your past that you really haven't worked through. It's time to work through those because they're going to affect you. And then, I think, sometimes we're just not motivated.
We know, maybe, we're not healthy, we're not whatever, but it seems like it's too much work to get healthy, and, so, we just don't. Day after day, after day, we don't.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. An, I think, also, exhaustion is one factor and I think that could definitely play into what you just said. It just seems like a lot of work.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Because if we're exhausted, you can't add one more thing.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: Also busyness and distraction. So sometimes we just don't have the time or we just, probably, don't want to make the time because it doesn't seem fun. It doesn't seem fun to work on.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and, I think, how many times have you asked somebody, "How is life?” or something, and they say, "Busy."
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: I mean, and I think part of it, that's how we feel. And I think we can get too caught up in that and we can stay too busy to do the things that make us healthy.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And you've just got to take time for yourself.
Lindsay: Well, and I love that too. I remember in this same series, when we were talking about physical health. You talked about hearing Carey Nieuwhof talk about sleeping eight to 10 hours a night.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: I just listened to that episode of his podcast yesterday. Where he was talking about working less, but being more productive.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: I mean, what a great light bulb moment to know that you working more doesn't mean getting more done all the time. Because as a human being, at a certain point, our mind is exhausted, our body is exhausted. We're not getting anywhere, any farther, any faster. So that, kind of, busy cycle, sometimes it's just a habit and it's not even helping anything.
Or, sometimes, we just commit to things without thinking through them. So we just have to keep juggling these commitments when that's not the best thing for us. And, I think, probably some of that's my stage of life speaking, where it's so easy to have all these different activities with the kids, too. Where you're just bouncing from one thing to the next, and never having really time to even think.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. And, I think, we can get into that, the busyness. And, I think, for me, I want a sense of accomplishment and it's hard. I'm getting better at, but it's hard, for me, just to rest sometimes.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So I have to be conscious of that too. Carey has helped me just knowing, and we talked about Jesus, how He could have healed people 24/7.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: But He, also, took time away to just be with the Father and to rest.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And to be with His close three and then 12, the disciples are the people He was close to and spend time with just them. And, to me, that relates to my time with God, and my time with my family, and time with Nancy, and those are got to be a priority. If Jesus made them a priority, I've got to.
Lindsay: Yes. I mean, He was God in flesh and He still didn't do every single thing.
Dr. Kim: No.
Lindsay: Yes, that's such a great reminder, too, because God didn't create us to be robots. He did not create us to function with no food and no sleep. He knows that He made us human and that human means we're limited. Why don't we want to accept that sometimes?
Dr. Kim: Yes, a few years ago I got into a YouTube guy that I really like. I think he's funny. I think he does some creative things, but he was just, "I sleep four hours a night. And if you're sleeping more than that you're wasting time, blah, blah, blah." And I was, kind of, falling into that and I realized, "No, I can't do that. That's not me."
And, maybe, some people are wired and can, I think, 99% of us need our rest. We need that quiet time, we have to have it. And, I think, that's why I loved about what Carey said, and just that he was willing to say that.
Because some people would think, "You sleep eight to 10 hours a day, you are a sloth." No, you're preparing yourself to be more effective in the time that you are working.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, certainly, he has a job where he can do that. Now, if you're working where you have to clock in and clock out, that's different, but you can still put balance in there.
Lindsay: Yes, for me, a lot of times it's like the things that prevent me from sleeping are not productive things. Even it's just like, kind of, extras that could be left alone.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay: There have been seasons of life, I mean, I'm not really doing a lot of TV right now. But there have been seasons where it's like, "Just one more episode."
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: And Netflix already knows you're about to so it'll just play it for you.
Dr. Kim: Well, yes, it's going to come in seven seconds anyway.
Lindsay: Terrible.
Dr. Kim: It's hard to click it off in seven seconds.
Lindsay: Yes, it feels like more work to get up off the couch at that point and go to bed.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: But, yes, it ends up being more exhausting.
[00:12:31] < Music >
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[00:13:33] < Music >
Lindsay: Dr. Kim, what are some of the problems that can come from not addressing our mental health?
Dr. Kim: Things get worse. I mean, they just do. They're not going to get better on their own, usually. You've got to address them. I think then you get the physical issues stress, anxiety, depression. I think, those things can be very prevalent. Those are not fun to live with and there's answers for them.
I think our personal relationships suffer when we don't do that. It's harder to connect with people. It's harder to feel close with people. I think, our quality of life can change. I've had people that did not deal with some mental health issues, and they complained about, "I'm getting all these calls from collectors."
I said, "Well, do you pay your bills?"
"Well, no, I've got a stack of envelopes on my desk, I haven't opened yet."
And, so, I think, your quality of life. Maybe you don't maintain your home like you did at one time. You don't keep it clean and those kind of things.
There's a stat I read that said, "When our mental health is not good there's more accidents." Whether it's at home, in your car, or whatever. And, I think, it's just because you're not thinking. You're not taking care of yourself with. And, then, you get into some of the things that people do to cope and that's substance abuse, and alcoholism, and things like that.
Well, that's not the answer to dealing with mental health. And then, I think, the extreme comes when someone begins to have lots of suicide. And, so, not taking care of it, there's just nothing good that's going to come from not addressing it and admitting, "I need some help." And even if you don't believe in it, "Everyone else is telling me." If they're people that love you trust them, and what they're telling you, and get some help.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. Because there's something they're seeing there. They're seeing something that you might not see. Yes, and, so, I think, we have to acknowledge, too, it's going to impact our marriage.
So anything with mental health, our spouse is in it with us. And, so, they're on the other side of us dealing with whatever we're going through. So whatever we are growing in health or away from health, it's always going to impact them. It's going to reflect to them. And we're not going to have the marriage we could have, but it's also going to be harder.
You did a great job of laying out this terrible path that you could go down, walking away from that health, one thing leads to the next. So the farther you go without addressing it, it's probably going to be a little harder to pick up those pieces. So it's worth dealing with, for sure.
Dr. Kim: I think so, it's just there's nothing good. And the other thing is you married someone to go through life with. You say, "In sickness and in health." Well, you want to go through this together and you want your spouse to be beside you. And you want your spouse to understand so they can come along beside you. And, so, keep that door open, don't do this alone.
Lindsay: Yes, and that can be hard to do. That can be hard because it feels, probably, scary to talk about, or hard to talk about. Or it feels like that just takes more energy when you don't have much energy.
Dr. Kim: Yes, exactly.
Lindsay: But any step is going be better than just keeping it alone.
Dr. Kim: Than none. Because if you don't address it or you act like it's not there. It's going to come back and it's not going to go away.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes. So again don't tough it out. Talk about it. Open up to your spouse. And then, also, I want to talk about what are some of the helpful ways to address our mental health. If we know something's going on, what should we do?
Dr. Kim: Now, that we've talked about all this bad stuff.
Lindsay: Yes, right?
Dr. Kim: I think, one, is our relationship with God. I think God gives us hope that we don't have without Him. And, so, it helps us, maybe, come from a negative to a positive mindset because, "Even though I don't see the path, I trust God that He's going to help me get out of this." And, I think, realizing that as long as God leaves us here, He has a plan for our life and begin to seek that plan, and ask God for that. Ask Him to reveal that to us.
I think showing gratitude is a great way to change things around, it changes our mindset. Taking care of our physical health instead of just letting it go, and that doesn't mean you got to run a marathon.
You can start out with walking around the block. Or doing ten push-ups a day or something that you can do, and begin to do a little bit of exercise.
Look at your diet. How healthy is your diet?
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And you don't have to have a perfect diet, but have a healthy diet. So if you splurge, it's a splurge instead of a lifestyle because, I think, we can get into that. And then how are you sleeping?
If you're not sleeping well, what do you need to do to get better sleep? When I don't sleep well I don't do well at all. And if it happens a number of nights in a row, I mean, I can tough it through a day. But then if I continue to do that, it's going to really take a toll on me, so, I think, that's really important.
Having a quiet time each day, it's so valuable. And if you think, "Oh, I don't have time to do that." Well, start with 10 minutes or whatever. But just maybe you read a You Version plan. Maybe you pray, maybe you do both, whatever it is just taking time, it's great.
I think if you can take time to journal. Because I think that helps us get our things out of our head and onto paper where we can really see what's going on. And you know that's something I think there's value in and I had not thought much about it, till I've seen it pop up in a lot of different ways recently. And that's just breathing exercises that God wired us in a way that slowing down, taking some breathing exercises, rejuvenates us. And, I think, it's one of those ways God wired in us that sometimes we don't take advantage of. But God gave us some good ways to recover.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And I think breathing, slowing down, some deep breathing, those kind of exercises can really make a difference for us too.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And I think just being, the physical, there is something, if I am not doing well and I come home and I hug Nancy, there is something the way God wired us that rejuvenates me. I think that we have these touch receptors in our skin, and the hug from someone that you love and that loves you, really, just does something for us.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So take time to do that. If you quit hugging, start hugging again.
Lindsay: Yes, it's very doable. All of those things that you mentioned, too, are something you can do whenever you have five minutes free. They're free, they're accessible, you don't need anything except for maybe a pen for the journaling, but everything else is very accessible. I love that.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Yes, well, now, so this is where I'm going to take us back to Mark 12:30 again, and say that the Scripture tells us, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength." And, to me, that shows me it's very active in all of those areas that we've been talking about throughout this series.
That God is aware that we have all these different aspects, these layers to how He created us and that they work together. And, so, this mental stuff, it's easy to want to put it in a box, but it all works together. And I love what you're saying, Dr. Kim, about the physical because so much of it is very intertwined.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay: Like, you're saying, if you're not sleeping that's going to affect your brain chemistry. It's going to affect all your mood and all these things, and the longer it continues, the more it will affect you. You just can't separate them.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely, yes. And eating right, all those kind of things. You keep putting stuff into your body that's not good. Maybe you can get by with some. But, long-term, it's not and it's going to drag you down. And you're not going to feel as good about yourself and you just feel more sluggish, and, so, eating healthy.
Lindsay: Yes, it's not good to feel that lack of energy and that sluggishness. And I think, too, going back to the Scripture, when you're talking about the faith component of it. I think it can be really assuring sometimes just to recognize that we're just in this one moment. We only see what's in front of us, but God's, perspective's a lot bigger. He's outside of time, and, so, He knows what He's going to bring you through in the end. Sometimes just knowing that is a good, kind of, a relief. To take the pressure off of like, "We want the answer. We want the end, we want the happy ending or whatever it is."
But if we can just acknowledge like, "Okay, this is just a moment. I'm going through this right now. I don't have to necessarily figure out why or what." But just, kind of, say, "This is a moment and then this won't last forever." And that's a good perspective shift that takes a little bit of that pressure off.
Dr. Kim: Oh, I so agree. I think, if we can look at life as a series of seasons.
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And you go from one to the other. And, I think, the other thing too, it's the analogy of the forest and the trees. If you're in the middle of forest and lost, you have no idea where to go. If you go up 30,000 feet, you can see the path out. You can see the size of the forest. You can see all those kind of things.
And, so, God helps us do that. I know He does. He just helps us see the bigger picture and to see that He always provides a way out, always. No matter where you are?
How stuck you are?
What's going on in your life?
God always has a way out for you.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's so good. Yes, so, I think, we've got to put prayer on this list of improving our mental health. You've touched on that. Also I think that just assessing your intake, like you talked about before. What are you putting your mind? Literally, if you're not tracking your time or if you're not sure how much time you spend with certain news, or different apps. Or certain things that aren't necessarily the best for your mental health, go ahead and get a handle on that. Figure out how much time you are, actually, spending there? And then how that's affecting you?
And then, I think, different friends or family members, sometimes, can really bring a lot of pressure or tension, and expectations that can feel difficult. And, I think, another thing with that is just talking about taking our thoughts captive. The Scripture is clear that we have power over our thoughts. Our thoughts don't have power over us.
And, so, when I learned that I was pretty surprised because I didn't even know I could choose how I thought. That doesn't mean you control what comes in or out of your mind. Things will pop in there, but you don't have to then latch onto it and grab it. You can say, "No, that's not for me. That's not something I want to think about." And redirect that.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I think so many people think, "Well, that's just the way I am."
Or, "I can't change." And now we know from studies on the brain. A lot of work that's been done to know that our brain is pliable and you can change. And if you've got a negative rut you can replace that with positive things, and that you can change.
You just have to be very intentional about it over a period of time, and you can get rid of those negative thoughts. And I love what you said, I tell guys that, with lust and things like that, you can't change what comes into your mind, pops into it, but you can change what you do with it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm
Dr. Kim: And, so, if those negative thoughts come. If lustful thoughts come, things that are unhealthy for you, don't dwell on them. Get rid of them. Give them to God, start praying. Ask God, "Get these out of my mind and help me focus on what's good for me, not what's bad for me."
Lindsay: Yes, temptation is not the same as sin. It's when we, then, dwell on that thought and act on it, that becomes sin. But like you said earlier, Dr. Kim, God always provides a way out. When you resist the devil he'll flee from you. So that's great news for us.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. I can't remember, I was 30, 40, maybe, probably, forties, maybe fifties when I realized that Jesus was tempted.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: Because I always think, well, Jesus was without sin. And then when you read through and you see how the devil tempted Him, and how He resisted it by calling on God's word.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Lindsay: It's like, "Oh, yes, it's okay to be tempted because Jesus was tempted."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: But He had the right answers, which means God will give me the right answers in those situations. If I will seek Him. If I'll ask Him.
Lindsay: Absolutely, yes. And, I think, it's really helpful to say, "I don't have to feel ashamed of that temptation. I can actually go away from that."
Dr. Kim: Yes, and, I think, especially, pick a little side, but guys that are struggling with like pornography and things. And, so, as you're coming out of that. As you're changing you, probably, will have some of those images and things that will pop into your mind from time to time, but you can handle it differently. You can give that to God. You can redirect your thoughts until it gets to where those are so far behind you. Where you realize, "I think the farther you get away from that the more disgusting that becomes."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And as you build your relationship with your spouse, you see what God's plan for sex was and it wasn't that. It's your spouse in front of you.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And, I think, too, is when we were talking about getting out of these patterns. I think sometimes when we're faced with these temptations that have been habitual or have come up over and over. I think that, sometimes, if you're trying to get out of it, it's hard because we're actually hyper-focused on it. And, so, that ends up backfiring.
But, I think, in those situations, if you can reframe it into, like, "Okay, this is, actually, something really selfish. If I keep thinking about myself, my temptation, my sin." Instead to think about, "What is something I could do for somebody else? What is something I could do that's productive, or that's helpful." Just, kind of, getting out of your own head about stuff and thinking about a way to like, "Can I do something that's of service? Can I do something that's of help?" Can help snap us out of that too.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And then, one more thing, I have, and I'm curious about your thoughts. I think that just figuring out how to create more margin can be really helpful, Because it's really hard. We have to really fight for that.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. And, for me, I think, it helps. One of the things that, actually, mentioning Carey Nieuwhof, again, that in the last book that he wrote. He talks about what the times of day you're most productive and he divides a day into red, and yellow, green zones.
And, so, that's on my calendar now, those times. And I know when I'm most productive. I know times when I need to rest and that's really helped me just a visual- visual always helps me. Of saying, "Hey, I need to build this in. I need to make sure that that time is my quiet time. And, really, the time like the yellow, when I first get up in the morning, is when I do my quiet time, and when I exercise.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Because the exercise is pretty mindless or I'm listening to a podcast or something. And then that prayer, just involving God. And then when I get into a green zone, I'm ready to go to work and do the things. And then when that green zone kind of changes back into a yellow zone, I try not to do things that are going to take a lot of mental activity. And just that discipline has helped me a lot and I think it's made me healthier.
Lindsay: Mm, yes, that's good. And I hope that's, kind of, going back around to what we talked about before the limitations. We don't have to be hustling all day, every day, or whatever. It's okay to have that season, that cycle, that rhythm.
Dr. Kim: And knowing when is your most productive time and taking advantage of that.
Lindsay: Yes, now try and to make every second the most productive. I think one more thing, too, we haven't touched on yet, but is go and see a counselor or a doctor.
Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. As a counselor, I guess I'm biased. But if you're stuck go see a counselor/doctor. In the long-run, it will be much less expensive than if you let it continue to go. And most counselors are a lot of like we do, we have some pro-bono, and we have some reduced-rate stuff. And I think a lot of counselors do that to help people who need it.
But, yes, get help if you need it and being checked out medically. I think, if you get to a certain age, you need to have a checkup, blood work done at least once a year. And I'm not sure what doctors would recommend when you start that. I've pretty much done it since, probably, my mid-twenties or something like that, just doing that and, I think, that helps. It can rule out if there's something going on, the doctor sees, then you can address it.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And, I think, if you're really stuck in some of those patterns we talked about earlier in this episode, then a lot of people say, "How do I know if it's like time to go to counseling or if that would help? If you're stuck with any of those patterns that you're not happy about. If things are not how they used to be, that's a good time to go.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm, absolutely.
Lindsay: Yes, so what about for the person who's married to a spouse with ongoing mental health challenges? What can we say to them? Are there ways they can help their spouse?
Dr. Kim: Yes, I'm so glad you put that question in because I think there's a lot of people that deal with that. That do have a spouse that's struggling. First, I would educate yourself. If your spouse is suffering from depression, find out everything you can about depression. Learn about it, try to understand that. Because, I think, it's hard when someone's never been depressed. You kind of just say, "Well, suck it up. What's wrong with you?"
And with anxiety, depression, you just can't do that. It takes time. It takes work. It takes effort. I think spending time with them is important and try to make connection with them, so they can value that. I think you being positive. Positive communication really helps in your interactions. Obviously, prayer and I think taking care of yourself.
So many times a person who's giving care gets down, too, or just living with someone. And, so, if you have someone that's like that, how do you come alongside them?
How do you help them?
How do you encourage them to get the help they need?
You may be the one that needs to make the appointment. You may need be the one that needs to drive them there. You may be the one that just pushes them just a little bit toward getting healthy. Because sometimes when you're down like that or mental health issue, you don't want to do anything.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And I think too, if you have kids in the house, be aware of what they're seeing, what they're taking in. Talk to them about what's going on with dad or mom. Give them hope.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Tell them, "We're working on it. "And they can pray too, about it. So I think those things are important. But I think trying to understand the person, instead of just, "This is driving me crazy." Which it may, I get that. But try to understand it, too, and then begin to take some steps to do what you can to help them.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, and what I love, too, none of the steps are like “fix them.” You can't just make it go away.
Dr. Kim: No.
Lindsay: And, so, that compassion is really important here.
Dr. Kim: It definitely is. Because, I don't know, when I'm depressed I tend to isolate, and, so, if Nancy just withdrew from me, it would be harder.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And, so, her coming along beside me. Talking things through me. Me talking to someone else, if I need to, those kind of things help a lot.
Lindsay: Yes, that's really good advice. And, I think, it's helpful, too, like you told us earlier. I mean, you guys, you've lived this. You've been through that, each of you on each side of that. So, that's really encouraging that you did it and now you're past it, you moved through that.
Dr. Kim: Yes, it has. And it's something that it really, as I look back, it was really interesting. When we had talked about the fruits of the spirit. Nancy and I had started praying that year for it. We were going to take one and go through it. So we prayed that God would increase our love for each other.
Well, that was the year we both had bad depression, Nancy first and then me. And what I realized when it came, it was probably June, and we'd been through all that. I just realized that God grew our love, and not that God made those things happen. I don't think He did. I think He knew they were going to happen.
I think that's why He drew us to pray, to increase our love, and I think He did for that. I think He gave us more compassion and understanding for each other. And, so, God entered that prayer in a time that we could have really pulled apart or just ignored each other that we came together in that. And that God not only healed us through that, but also grew our marriage through it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's good. That's really not good in the moment but in the end, cool.
Dr. Kim: No, and I'm not suggesting that, I'm just saying God works in every situation.
Lindsay: He does. Yes. Like we said, He doesn't waste anything. He always works in everything, that's so good. So are there things that a person can do if they're in that situation, to help them be healthy regardless of where their spouse is?
Dr. Kim: Yes, I mean, I think taking care of yourself, prayer. I mean there are basics that we talk about, Bible plans, reading the Bible. Have some trusted friends you can talk about. You don't want to start posting everything that's going on in your house on Facebook, or Instagram, or something like that. You need to have one or two people that you really trust that they hold things confidential, that you can talk with. And if you can find someone that's been through it already, that's really helpful.
So sometime just asking your pastor, as you've told your pastor, "This what we're going through. Anybody else that has, that would be willing to spend some time with me that can really be helpful."
Lindsay: Mh-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I think doing the basics, that we keep going back to, that keep us better, and that's exercise at some level. Doing everything you can to get the sleep you need. So you're healthy every day and you're ready for what that brings. And then the nutrition, taking care of yourself. So I think taking care of yourself is so important when you're in that situation.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. What about things like making time for fun or laughter. Is there room for that in this situation too?
Dr. Kim: Yes. I think that's so important, there's so much healing that comes in those. And, so, if you can't do that with your spouse, doing that with some of the trusted friends, until that comes back into your marriage. Because, I don't know, God just wired us in so many ways that things are beneficial for us and I think laughter is— One of my favorite pictures of Jesus, and obviously, this wasn't a photo, this was a drawing. But the photo of Jesus is laughing. I think it's called Jesus Laughing. And to realize, "Oh, my gosh, we are in God's image. God laughed. Jesus laughed." And how important that is to us and, so, I think that really helps too.
Lindsay: Yes, I think so.
Dr. Kim: Taking time to do things that you enjoy doing and if your spouse can do them with them, great. If not do the things that keep you healthy.
Lindsay: Yes, I was thinking through in that situation, I feel like it might be something you'd feel guilty if you were able to have fun or laughter. But I don't think that guilt really helps these, anything, really, I don't think it's helpful.
Dr. Kim: No, I think the guilt comes from the enemy. I think God convicts us of things, sure. But, I think, anytime you start feeling guilty, it's probably coming from the enemy.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, because God's conviction brings repentance which brings healing. Guilt doesn't heal anything.
Dr. Kim: And it brings change. Yes, guilt just puts you in a puddle somewhere.
Lindsay: Yes, absolutely. So I hope everyone heard that, that was a great distinction. And, so, what would you say to this spouse, who's just exhausted or overwhelmed by their spouse's mental health struggles?
Dr. Kim: And that can happen.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I would say you may need a break, and it's okay to take a break. It's okay to, like, we just talked about, have fun with a friend. Maybe you need to go visit some relatives. Maybe you need a, a trip. Because caregivers, when you read the things about caregivers that are family, it can take a toll on them.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I've heard stories where the caregiver dies before the person that they're giving help to, because they didn't take care of themselves. Or got really sick because of that and then couldn't give care. So I think you have to watch out for that if you're living with someone like that. That you've got to make sure everything you can do to make yourself healthy. Because the healthier you are, the more you're going to be able to come alongside and help your spouse.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So don't feel guilty about needing a break, you may really need a break, and I think it's okay to take that. You can arrange whatever it needs to be, so you can do that. whether it's someone to come in and be with your spouse, or spend time, or watch over them, or keep an eye on them, whatever that was it's okay.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. That's really encouraging to hear that articulated. Because, I think, having seen certain family members be caregivers over someone in their later days or in hospice. There's always this pressure to like, "I have to be there for everything all the time."
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: But in reality, sometimes you can't. Sometimes you have to call the fire department to pick them up. You can't always be the one doing everything and nor should you.
There are some things you just, physically, are not able to do. There are some things that you, physically, can say, "I need help with this myself." And get some help there.
Dr. Kim: So being aware of the resources in your community I think is really important, and then not being afraid to use them or call on them.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: My last, probably, few months of my dad's life because he had three primary cancers and so there were some times that he would fall. And there were times I went to help him up, but mom got to work. The fire department that was less than a mile away, those guys were my mom's best friends for a while there. And they cared, and they helped, and they encouraged, and they loved my dad, and they helped him, and "This is no problem for us to come and do this for you." They were so good. So don't hesitate to use the resources that are around you.
Lindsay: Yes, that's really good. That's freeing, for you to say that.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and I think, too, it's okay. I had a couple that did this and during that time, they had their pastor would come once a month, I think, and have communion with them.
Lindsay: Oh, wow.
Dr. Kim: And that was a really powerful thing. And, of course, we're talking about, this is probably, people that are more home bound with the situation. But there's a lot of things that you can do to help your spouse and to help you.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. This has been a really helpful conversation, Dr. Kim, about two different topics on mental health. That I think are just so important and really helpful. But do you have any final piece of advice for us today?
Dr. Kim: I would say if you think it's going on, don't ignore it. If you think it's going on, if it's in you or in your spouse, don't ignore it. Because there's always some answers. There's always some people to help and ignoring it, it's never going to get any better by ignoring it. It's just going to get worse.
So maybe this encourages someone to take the first step. And if you're in the midst of this and you're doing the things, just to encourage you to keep on. And that there are those who understand and make sure that you're taking care of yourself, and having people to pray for you, and to talk to you and to walk through this with you.
Lindsay: That's really encouraging. That's good. It's worth it. Worth it to take the steps.
Dr. Kim: Yes, it's so worth it.
Lindsay: So that's a great conversation today on mental health. I'm so glad we could tackle that topic and, really appreciate your insights from your experience and from counseling.
So now we'll close out this week with this week's anonymous reader question. And this one, okay, so we're going to take a hard right turn here, and it's a totally different subject. But I love that about our anonymous questions, it could be anything. So here's this week's question. It just makes me giggle, it's so good, it's such a good question.
It says, "I love my wife and I want to be close to her. One thing that is breaking our connection is she tells the most long-winded stories and it overwhelms me, it's like every day.
I need her to be more direct and use less words, sometimes. It seems like we have different needs here, different ways we like to communicate. How can I, lovingly, let her know how I am feeling?"
Dr. Kim: Well, I think, you did a pretty good job right there. But, I think, it does need to be a conversation and share that, and then, I think, it's compromise.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I think that maybe you say, "There's times that I need you to be direct. There's times, like, keep the conversation to so many minutes."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: But then, I think, you'd also be willing to listen to that story sometime and look at the benefit of it. "How can I benefit from that?"
"How can I come alongside her in that?" Whatever the story is.
But, I think, it's getting it on the table to start with, and it's okay to tell her that, "This is bothering me. I love you, and I care for you, but I find myself drifting when you're talking. I find myself getting agitated, sometimes, because it goes on, and on, and on, and I don't want to feel that way towards you. I want to love you, and, so, can we work on this together?"
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And then you can say, "How can I help you with this?" Or, kind of, put it back in their court. "How can we work on this... what idea do you have?" And see what they come up with, and they may come up with a really good idea. If they came up with it, it's going to be a lot better chance you're going to follow through with that.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: But, I think, putting some limits. I had a couple deal with this and she was willing to keep the conversations, I can't remember if it was five or 10 minutes, something like that, whatever they agreed on. And it helped her become a little more succinct and I think she felt some benefit of it afterward.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, I think, that what we tried to help them do is to have more interaction, where he had a chance to talk too. And then, I think, that was really more beneficial for her. And she said, "Well, this is of more value than me doing a 30-minute monologue is to bring something up, and talk in it as interaction and I get more out of that." And, so, it's helping them walk through it. And if you need a counselor to help you walk through that, that's great. But I would, first, get it on the table. See what you go with that, don't be judgmental. Don't say, "You always are this kind of thing."
Just say, "This is something that's been on my heart, I will want to talk to you about." And then get it on the table and talk about it, and see what happens.
Lindsay: Yes, that's good. And, I think, you're right, he did a really good job laying it out in this question. Maybe just edit it a little bit. Just a little bit.
Dr. Kim: He did. Yes, exactly. I thought he did a good job there.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: So great question. I love the questions.
Lindsay: Yes, good, and guy, if you're listening, we don't know who you are, but you there you go.
Dr. Kim: Yes, hope that helps.
Lindsay: If anyone else, if you have a question you'd like to hear Dr. Kim answer on the podcast, make sure you are subscribed to The One Thing to Grow Your Marriage Daily Email. Because there's a little button on there where you can submit an anonymous question for us.
Dr. Kim: So if you enjoyed today's podcasts will you please just take a minute and leave us a rating and review. Follow the link in the show notes you can leave an iTunes review. I don't know why I always say- iTins - iTunes review, it's one of the best ways to help other people see the show.
There are so many people who haven't seen it that I think could benefit from it. There is a lot of marriage content out there, and we are passionate about bringing God's purpose for marriage into the podcast space. So you can help us make that happen by leaving a rating and review, and we appreciate it very much when you do that.
Lindsay: Yes, we really do. It does make a difference. And we'll make sure to link to all the resources mentioned in the show today so you can find those. You're always welcome to reach out to us at info@awesomemarriage.com or by DMing us on Instagram. You can also find us on Facebook. And join us again next week as we're going to wrap up this Healthy Self, Healthy Marriage Series, talking about all of your questions.
So if you have questions about that, feel free to put those on that little question button too. We would love to hear from you and we want to know what are you thinking.
What are your thoughts on this? Because, I think, it's been a really good series. I've enjoyed unpacking it together.
Thank you so much for listening, for sharing your time with us today. Have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage today.
[00:46:21] < Music >
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[00:46:57] < Outro >