Avoid These 3 Premarital Mistakes: #2 Focusing on the Wrong Things | Ep. 532
[00:00:00] < Intro >
Lindsay: Welcome to The Awesome Marriage Podcast. A place for honest conversations and practical advice, on how to build an awesome marriage. I am your podcast producer and co-host Lindsay Few.
On the show will be our host, Dr. Kim Kimberling. Dr. Kim is a marriage counselor and has been married for over 50 years. His passion is to help you strengthen your most intimate relationship.
Today on The Awesome Marriage Podcast, we're talking about major pre-marriage mistakes to avoid. Mistake number two that we're talking about, today, is Focusing on the Wrong Things. Dr. Kim has a lot of wisdom, as a marriage counselor, as he's counseled engaged and married couples for over 35 years, and he's written our Prep for Marriage Online course.
So today we're going to dig into the second major mistake to avoid Focusing on the Wrong Things. So, Dr. Kim, what do we mean by focusing on the wrong things?
Dr. Kim: I really think it goes back to not putting God first, for me. And then people say, "Well, yes, what does that mean?" Well, I think it's knowing that God designed marriage. I think it's knowing that God does have a plan for every marriage. And that God wants your marriage to succeed, and God wants what is best for your marriage, and that He has answers that you don't.
And, so, when you learn to focus on Him, to put Him first, then come to Him for things, pray together for Him. Ask Him to grow your relationship. Ask Him to give you the marriage that He wants for you.
By beginning to do that, and you're both doing that together. One, I think you see God show up, for sure. And I think, two, it just helps you get rid of some of the distractions that are just there, when you're going through this engagement process.
I think you and I talked, you put some things down, and we talked about a little bit last time. About putting more focus on the wedding than on the marriage, and I'm not sure the balance is there.
I think you've just got to decide that you're going to do both. Because I know I would not just put a hole take the air out of a woman's wedding plans, and what they want for that. I get that, it's important to her.
But the wedding takes what? 20 to 30 minutes, maybe longer, depending on what your faith may be, and then it's over. And then you've got a lifetime ahead of you. And, so, all that prep for that one day of the wedding is great. But the marriage, if you want it to last the rest of your life together, then you've got to focus on that too. You've got to begin to prepare for that too.
Lindsay: That's a really good place to start.
Dr. Kim: So I think it goes with a couple of things.
Lindsay: Yes, and I think that's quite a paradigm shift, if you're thinking about the wedding. Preparing for the wedding and thinking about it in terms of, "My wedding, our wedding." And then you're telling us that God has a plan for your marriage. And, so, that's shifting things and letting go of this idea that, "This is mine." And saying, "Well, maybe, it's actually God's, and He gets to have some say over how this is going to go."
Dr. Kim: Yes, and I think just realizing, I don't know, and maybe it's just because I'm older and I've been through a lot of things, and Nancy has been through a lot of things. But a lot of times my ideas, especially, if they're not in line with what God wants, they don't work.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And I've done plenty of exploring to try to do my way or use my ideas or thinking. Probably not that I know more than God, but probably the actions and words might say that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And, so, I think what I've learned is that God always wants the best for us. And we tend to think that we know what's best for ourselves or what we really want. And when we get to the point of really saying, "Okay, God, what do you want?"
I think that's when our marriages are fulfilled. I think it's when our lives become more fulfilling. Because God has us here for a purpose, in the way we do our lives, the way we do marriage. And, so, when we grab onto that it makes a difference.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And most couples don't grab that from the beginning, I get that. But just know that's where you want to go. And know you want to work through that process to get there, and you want to get there together.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's huge. I definitely agree with what you're saying. I think there's a fear that if we let God have the say that He's going to take things away. I have always had that. That's my temptation is to think, "Oh, He's going to make me give up this thing I love or He's going to take away something that I really want." But really, the things that we want can't satisfy us in the way that God's way can.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: And He knows human nature better than we know ourselves. And I think it's an important point that you're saying, because you've seen some things. You've experienced some things that have helped confirm that for you.
But God has seen all the things. He's, literally, seen everything through all of time and He certainly knows more than we do. And to give Him a place of honoring the wisdom that He has and gives us through His word, will certainly lead us to a more fulfilling relationship.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and, maybe, a lot of it, probably, goes back to people how they view God. Who is God to you? And, so, if you think God is a judge, or harsh, or all those kinds of things, some negative things like that. You can get into some of the things you're saying. Or the, "Okay, our sex life is going to be so boring because God is a prude."
Well, God is not a prude. He gives us a lot of leeway in sex and marriage, and He designed our bodies to work together, and all those kind of things. So I think it's getting rid of some of those misconceptions and knowing that God loves you more than you'll ever know. He wants your marriage to work more than anybody else in the world does. And He's got the answers you don't have yourself.
And I think just beginning to accept those things and seeing God as good, and the things that He does. Even though they may be different sometimes than what you want to do. In the end, I think you'll always find out He was right and the way He wants you to do things is good, and that He's good.
Lindsay: Yes, I agree, certainly. So you mentioned a couple of wrong things. One, would be that the focus is not putting God first. Another you mentioned was some degree of focusing more on the wedding than on the marriage. Are there any other things that couples might be focusing on that aren't helpful?
Dr. Kim: Well, overextending financially for the wedding is huge. I mean, I think you've got to stay within your means. You don't want to go into a marriage with debt. If you're paying for your wedding yourself or you're paying for a portion of it. And you end up with a big debt that, going into marriage, I think that's just such a negative thing there.
It's okay to have a wedding that you can afford. Don't overextend yourself financially in that. Enjoy what you have and make it the best that you can with what you have.
Don't compare to somebody else's wedding or even what one of your, maybe your sister's wedding, or things like that. Make it what works for you and it can be really simple. Some of the best weddings I have done have been very, very simple weddings. And it was just the joy, and the love, and the care, and the celebration that made it really special.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: There weren't $20,000 for the flowers and those things, and I'm not putting those things down. But I'm saying you don't need things to have a great wedding ceremony.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: And I think a couple of other things; not focusing on the ideals of their future marriage, not taking the steps that will get them there. We've talked about that a little bit. Just know that you can have this great vision of what you want your marriage to be, and I think everyone needs to have that.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I love the analogy I've used a lot is a marriage highway. And you get on the day you get married and down the end there's the end of your lives together.
But on there's a highway that you've got to go. And as you go down that highway you're going to see there's some bumps in the road, and there's some potholes, and there's some exits off of that road too, or some detours.
And, so, all of those, and learning how to navigate those different things that come up in your marriage, is what makes a marriage be what you really want it to be and what it can be. And, so, that's being aware that you're going to have to do some things.
You have to grow; you're going to have to face some things together. And those are some of the steps you're going to take. To get to that ideal future marriage that you want, by going through things together, not ignoring them. Not acting like they're not there or just thinking they're going to happen. "Wow, we got married so now we'll just sit back and coast." And it doesn't work that way.
Lindsay: No, it doesn't work that way. Yes, something I was thinking about when you were talking about the wedding, expectations for the wedding day. In the comparison, there is also comparison with other premarital activities.
We've got showers, we've got bachelor, weekends, bachelorette weekends, and some of that stuff can be so common. That in certain social circles that's just the norm. Is to go ahead and commit to where you're going to have to go on this girls' weekend. You're going to have to come to these showers.
I'm saying, "Have to". I'm saying, "You have to." Because it's like almost an expectation and that's part of the process. And that is not a reality for most people whatever it is, I'm not sure the breakdown. But I've just seen there is a temptation to think that those things are all an essential part of a wedding, the prep and the lead up.
And in those ways, it can just be a really a lot of expectation. A lot of obligation that's not really doing anything to prepare you for the marriage, and I think in that way it can be a wrong focus. If it's making this wedding season, this wedding event, this huge thing, and there's not prepping done for the marriage. Or maybe not consideration for where the place that those activities have in the scheme of things.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm, I agree. Yes, and it's so easy to get focused on that, I get it. But we're not saying don't do certain things. We're just saying make sure you're doing the planning, the work, on your marriage at the same time.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: Put some balance in there.
Lindsay: Yes, and it reminds me of a friend of mine who said, "Please tell me when I'm getting married, if I become a “bridezilla.” I really don't want to be one."
But as she was getting closer to the wedding, she was going, "But of course I have to do this, and of course I have to have my bridesmaids do that. And naturally we're going to have to do that." And she was putting all these expectations on them.
And I'm like, "Okay, it's a tidal wave of like because you're asking a lot of these girls for your bridal party, your bridal weekend. And it's funny because this is a real place where I can say I feel like a geezer.
Because I'm like, "Back in my day we didn't have all those things. It was different. It was very different." And those things have just become cultural ideals or cultural norms, that's a new thing that's not a given.
Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. And I think it's great. I mean, I think it's great for the guys to get together and the girls before, and all your bridesmaids and stuff like that. I had one couple that she did it real simple.
She just had a sleepover, and she had all her friends and they all brought food to eat. And they just hung out and talked, and watched movies, and stuff like that, and they didn't go anywhere. And I think they, I'm not saying you don't go somewhere, but I'm saying you don't have to.
The purpose of those, I think, really is to just spend some time still while you're single, with some people that have been important in your life. That are going to be a part of your wedding and just to enjoy time with them. And it doesn't matter if you're in Paris or Gotebo, Oklahoma, I mean, seriously, just do it.
Lindsay: Yes, and these are things that people are thinking about and doing in their marriage prep process. And, so, I think it's worth mentioning because I've seen that happen a lot.
Another thing is, I think, that I've seen couples who think they know each other so well, they don't need to prepare for marriage. They'll say things like, "Oh, yes, we're on the same page."
Or like, "We get along really well, we're compatible, so we'll be fine."
And I think focusing on actually taking some steps to prepare can help get you prepared. Because things might come up that you haven't faced before that are different. Some challenges that are worth preparing for.
Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. I was thinking of one couple that I'd done the premarital counseling and they kind of said the same thing. And then when it got closer, they did the premarital counseling really early. I think it was before they were even engaged.
And, so, once they got engaged, well, he started voicing some opinions of things he wanted in the wedding. And he began to voice some opinions of things that he thought they should put on their gift list or the registry list, and things like that.
And, so, then they called me and said, "We need to come back in. We aren't as alike as we thought we were alike." Because she had all these and it's good that it happened then, and we worked through things. And most guys probably don't care as much about what goes on with all that stuff.
But it was something that he wanted to be a part of. He just didn't know how to be a part of it in a way that was going to compliment what they were doing and not feel like he was threatening or something like that with it.
Lindsay: Oh, that's funny. That's great. I love that they got that.
Dr. Kim: So at least they got to deal with some things before marriage. That they probably wouldn't have if he hadn't cared about some of those things.
Lindsay: Yes, oh, that's true. That's good.
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[00:15:39] < Music >
Lindsay: So what makes all these things the wrong thing to focus on?
Dr. Kim: I think because they don't really contribute, in the big picture, to a good and healthy marriage.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: They just aren't things that are going to grow your marriage. They're not things that are going to help you communicate better. Do the things that that really it takes to do, we talked about putting God first.
They're not going to be things that will really help you get to the marriage you want to have. And, so, I think the more we focus on the wrong things. The less we really are getting ready for this marriage that we want to be awesome forever.
Lindsay: Yes, for sure. And I think some of these things can end up, accidentally, taking away from the marriage. Like we've talked about the big wedding and you've cautioned against going over budget. Finances are one of the biggest things that couples fight about.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: I mean, just historically and all the data shows that. So if you're doing anything that's putting more strain on finances before your marriage, you're actually setting yourself up for a more stressful situation.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I'm glad you brought up finances because we ought to say at least something about it. Because I encourage couples, one of the things we talk about in the course is if you have debt. And, so, we talk about that, what is the debt? If it's school debt and they both knew about that, and then I just want to make sure they got a plan to pay that off.
Now, if somebody's got $15,000 worth of credit card debt they haven't told a person they're engaged to about, then that's going to be a big problem. And, so, we talk about, "How are we going to pay this off? Do we need to get this paid off before we even go forward with the wedding? Let's not drag that into our marriage."
Because finances are always one of the top three things that people mention as a problem in marriage. And it's been that way in the 35 years that I've been counseling couples. Finances has always been up there.
So I don't think it's going to go away, and I don't think it's going to change. The more we can do to not drag that into a marriage or not have that be a part of a marriage, God, you're just way ahead of so many people when you do that.
Lindsay: Yes, because really the point here it's not that you're doing the wrong focus. The point is we want you to go into your marriage in a good situation. The point of preparing for marriage is that you want to have a solid foundation, a good start.
And, so, if there are things that we've seen and, especially you Dr. Kim, going through counseling and through counseling so many couples. If there are things that people can avoid to get their marriage off on the right foot, that's what we're going for here.
So, yes, definitely your partner, or your spouse, or your future spouse needs to know what they're getting into because your finances will be theirs. You're going to share everything in marriage, you're bound to each other. So we need to be upfront, we need to be honest, need to get things on the table, not have surprises. That's not a great way to start.
Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely.
Lindsay: And then one other way is purity, not taking purity seriously is a wrong focus. I think sometimes people would tend to think, "Oh, we're so close to the wedding. We're so close, do we have to really deal with that now?" But with sexual temptation, that doesn't stop when you get married. And, so, dating couples, yes, there's some sexual tension or frustration. Obviously you're attracted to each other and if you're waiting until marriage to have sex, we applaud that, for sure.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: But know that once you're married, there's still a sexual temptation. It doesn't just go away. The devil's always looking to get you tempted to do something else.
So I've heard it said, "Before marriage he's trying to get you in the bed. After marriage he's trying to keep you out of it." And then there are so many couples who do deal with an affair, that we know that temptation is still part of your life after marriage.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. And I love the way you put that. I really hadn't thought of it that way because I think purity is not something that's real popular in our culture today. Because I don't know, I guess we just want to do what we want to do.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: But I do know that the couples I know that have chosen to be pure before marriage. Or even couples that have been in sexual relationships with other people before. Or that maybe they've been having sex in this relationship and they choose to stay pure from that time to the marriage, I just see it redefines it.
And I think when you're prayerful about that, and ask God to help you have the sex relationship and marriage that He has for you. That you can totally redefine that and it makes a difference. And I love what you said about if you practice purity now you're practicing self-discipline with sex.
Because those temptations are not going to go away just because you're married. There's going to be things, there's just too much in our culture that we're so sexually charged and driven, in our culture anyway. So there's stuff all the time. And, so, learning to discipline yourself in that before marriage, that can carry over into marriage. It will do wonders for your marriage relationship.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: You're always going to have the temptation, but we know temptation's not sin. Jesus was tempted, it's when you act on it. So the temptations are going to come and you've got to be ready for that.
And, so, practice together now, I don't think you'll ever regret. I've never had a couple that has chosen to be pure from whenever they decided that, till their marriage that regretted it. And I've had a lot of couples that said, "We wish we had and we didn't." So why not? You're not going to die.
Lindsay: Yes, believe it or not, you'll survive.
Dr. Kim: Maybe a lot of cold showers. Maybe you're running five miles more a day than you did before. And I tell couples, too, I would really be worried if you weren't sexually attracted to each other. I wouldn't be worried if you didn't want to have sex with each other. I think that would be a bigger problem, to me. A lot bigger problem than the desire that you're trying to fight and figure out how to be pure, that's a great problem to have. The other, that's a big problem.
Lindsay: Yes, for sure. I think that's great to bust that myth, you will not die without sex for a certain amount of time. But I do think, too, it's really important that we don't have the expectation that in marriage, suddenly, you will get to have sex whenever you want.
I mean, you still are in a two-person relationship. And, so, to put all of your sexual desires and frustration. To pin that on your spouse and say, "Once we're married, we can have sex whenever I want to."
Well, that's not really true either because it's a two-way street. You have to both be a part of that decision. And you still have to handle and discipline your sexual desires and temptations, inside a marriage or outside, and not just throw it at your spouse. "Okay, I'm ready."
Dr. Kim: Yes, and I think as guys, sometimes, we expect our wives to have the same sex drive we do. That doesn't mean they don't, but they just approach it a little differently. I think we both want the end-goal, and that's satisfaction and enjoyment, those kind of things, but we get there different.
And, so, yes, I think we learn that there's things we can, well, that's probably another podcast. But there's things that you learn to do to grow that sexual relationship once you get into the marriage, and that it's a gift from God.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Our culture does so much damage to us in the sexual area. Because of the things that we see, and hear about, and all kinds of things like that. And, so, we get all that junk and those distractions from that stuff, and then you have to really weed through that. To get to what God has for you and what really is the best sex ever.
Lindsay: Yes, and I think, too, maybe some Christian couples go through, they're really trying to put on earmuffs, and blinders, and not even acknowledge sexual temptation. And, so, after the marriage that gets a little awkward when, suddenly, all the rules are gone and you can do whatever. But you're like, "Oh," like it's drinking from a fire hose at that point, it's a huge shift.
Dr. Kim: Yes, staying pure, sometimes, we don't use the best ways to stay pure. If you're telling yourself, "Well, sex is bad, and wrong, and blah, blah, blah."
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: When you walk down the aisle nobody flips a switch. So you've got to go through that stuff. Instead of saying, "Sex is beautiful. It is a gift from God. It's something I cannot wait to enjoy with my future spouse, but today I'm going to stay pure."
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: There's a big difference.
Lindsay: Yes, and I know one thing that was hard for us, with drawing boundaries, with sexual temptation before marriage is it feels awkward. It feels awkward to talk about those things, but you're about to be doing a lot more than talking about it once you get married. So there is a time to start getting those things on the table.
Dr. Kim: Yes, one of the things I do, pretty early, in premarital counseling, is ask them to write down what do they look forward to the most in their sex relationship and marriage with their spouse.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Just to get them to talk about it, and then if it's a big class, I'll have them share that with each other. And if it's just one-on-one I'll have them do that as part of their homework.
But you've got to begin to talk about your sexual relationship. And before marriage it's what you want it to be, and what you would like it to be, and what you do look forward to. And, also, "Okay, this is our plan for waiting so we can embrace that in its fullness when that time comes"
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, because it's going to be part of the relationship.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and the other side of it, if you didn't God can redeem that. Just because you weren't pure before doesn't mean God is going to punish your sexual relationship the rest of your life, that's not at all.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: Once you say those vows, God does everything He can to make your marriage everything that it needs to be, and should be. And that you want it to be, and that God wants it to be for you, and that includes having a healthy sexual relationship. It just may mean that you'll have to deal with some things, that if you had stayed pure that you wouldn't have had to deal with. But there's always, yes, it could still be good.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, it can be God redeems, and not to make light of it, but I do think we all bring in some baggage. Whether we stayed pure or not, I think we all have to deal with some stuff. So don't feel like you're the odd man out if you are in that situation. God does redeem and we're all working on this.
Dr. Kim: Just speaking as a guy in our culture, to think that some guy goes through and never has sexual temptation, or doesn't lust, or things like that. I mean, whatever it is, to whatever extent it is, we all, because of the way we're brought up, the culture we live in. We're going to drag some sexual baggage into our marriage no matter what.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, and you can continue to bring that before the Lord, and He can continue to heal it and set you free from that.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: So that is definitely hopeful. So I'm curious, Dr. Kim, did you and Nancy prepare well for marriage? What did that look like for you guys?
Dr. Kim: No, we didn't. We just didn't. We were young and naive. I think we knew we, kind of what you were saying with you and Brian. When we would argue before marriage we could separate from each other and then everything was okay. And we hadn't really thought through the fact that there's no escape when you're living together.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: So I think we were aware of some things there. My parents made marriage look really good. And, so, I thought we could do the same thing, without realizing how much they had really worked on it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: So our prep for marriage was meeting with the pastor twice, and he was a long-term family pastor of her family. And he told me all these stories about her family the first time. We planned the wedding the second time. We talked nothing about marriage in those two sessions.
Lindsay: Wow.
Dr. Kim: And, so, that sent the message to me that, "Man, we're good." And then you get into marriage and you think, "Hmm, we're not great in all areas. We've got some things that we need to work through." And then you begin to think, "Did I marry the wrong person. What's wrong with her?" I mean, seriously, and my parents were perfect, "What's wrong with you?" All the things go through your mind.
And, so, no, and we've talked so many times that we wished that we could have had the kind of premarital counseling, back then, that is available to people today. Because it makes such a difference, and I don't know that there was that much. I think we did everything that was available then. I don't remember there being premarital classes or things like that. It was just kind of, "Yes, you just get married. Good luck."
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: So, now, anyway, that's something that I don't think we regret it because it wasn't like there was a class or an opportunity that we said no to. It just there wasn't anything there and, so, we just wished there had been.
Lindsay: Yes, we didn't do a good job either, and we did have more resources. We had a book, we had a small group that was going through the book. In the book, we were very prideful going through the book. It had great questions, and great thoughts, and stuff like that. But we were like, "This stuff is not stuff we're going to do it. This stuff is dumb."
It was very practical. It was very useful. It was very day-to-day, and we kind of said, "Oh, well, we already know where we stand on all this stuff." Like how many times do you use your towel before you wash it? For example.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Yes, and we just went through that like, "Oh, we won't struggle with that stuff." So we blew it off a little bit. And then when the pastor came to talk to us. He would have a one-on-one, I think, a one-on-one or two-on-one with each couple, at the end, as we got near the marriage. And he looked at us, he goes, "Okay, I think you guys are good. Are you good?"
We're like, "I guess, I mean, is that all there is? Is that it?" And we were not good, spoiler alert, we had not prepared very well. We'd not taken it seriously because we had these great visions of marriage and we thought, "Yes, we're just beyond this stuff. We're beyond that." And we were not.
Dr. Kim: I mean, seriously we could be teaching this.
Lindsay: Right, really wise young 21-year-olds.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and I think that's why sometimes you need to dig a little deeper, and with someone that can help you dig a little deeper.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: One of the things that we do in the Prep for Marriage class that I love, and we got this from someone else. That was David Olson, who's been a friend for years, was doing. And we had a series of questions with each session and it's just questions. It's not deep things, most of it, there are some, but some of them are just like, "How many times a week do you think we'll go out to dinner?"
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: "If we're going to buy a car, how much do we spend on it?" I mean, just some basic things that will come up, and there's hundreds of those questions. And couples have told me that that's one of the best things they like about the course. Because they talked about a lot of things that were going to come up in marriage, that they hadn't even thought about before.
And, so, if you get married and one of you thinks, "Well, we're going to go out to dinner every night, just like we did when we're dating." And the other is saying, "Well, we’ve got a budget now, we're going to go out to dinner once every two weeks." There's your first fight.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: And if you talk about it ahead of time, then you've averted that. So there's a ton of questions like that to help you just think through some things ahead of time.
Lindsay: Yes.
Dr. Kim: Which I think makes a difference. I wish someone would do that for us because we had to figure out all that on our own.
Lindsay: Yes, and I know we had the same assumption. And my parents had made marriage look pretty easy and I remember asking them later like, "What was the deal? We fight sometimes. You guys never fought."
And they said, "Yes, we did. We fought, we just didn't fight in front of you, and maybe we should have." But I just always thought they didn't. So I thought, "Oh, man, we have some kind of a problem." And I had no idea.
Dr. Kim: Yes, that's exactly the same thing with my parents. I saw them argue twice in my life.
Lindsay: Mm.
Dr. Kim: I mean, my whole life while I lived at home, and it lasted a very short time. And it was weird when it happened because they didn't ever fight in front of us. Now, they later on, obviously, the same thing your parents said, "Yes, we did argue. We just didn't let you know we did."
I think there's value, not in kids being in the middle of the fight. But to know that mom and dad have an issue, and we're going to deal with it. We're going to come up with a solution and we'll come back and say, "We worked it out." And, so, at least, they see that you have a process you're going through.
Lindsay: Yes, that's helpful. And, also, I'm glad you mentioned the questions, going back to that. We have a lot of those in that Prep for Marriage course, the online course.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: Ton of those questions, really good application, homework questions through each topic, each of the different topics through the course. But also a lot of those practical, detailed questions to talk through because I think those are so helpful too.
Dr. Kim: Yes, and in the class we talk about God's plan for marriage. We talk about our roles in communication and conflict resolution. Sexual relationship, and finances, and growing spiritually together.
We cover all the basic things that I, as a counselor, see people deal with, in general, in marriage. And, so, we've developed it and refined it over the years, to where I think we get great feedback. People feel like it's very helpful and that's the purpose.
Lindsay: Yes, I'm really proud of what we've done in the course, it's a great course. And I think my foolishness in my engaged period, is the reason I'm so passionate about it. Because we realize now, 19 years in, we could have done a lot more to prepare better for marriage and we would've had an easier go if we had.
But please learn from my mistakes and understand that this material isn't here just because it's arbitrary. It's here because these are the pain points people actually struggle with, and you might too.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely.
Lindsay: That's encouraging, a lot of good stuff couples can do now.
Dr. Kim: Yes.
Lindsay: But if you've seen couples who were often left field with their focus, have you seen them come back?
Dr. Kim: Yes, I think so. In fact, I've had some couples that did premarital counseling after they got married. Because they didn't before and they get into marriage and they've said, "Man, we thought about doing this before and we didn't. Can we come back and do it now?"
And I go, "Absolutely, the principles are really the same." Maybe we talk about a few things like premarital sex and things like that that aren't applicable. But most of it, it's the same application. It's just being aware of things and learning some tools, so when things come up you know it.
I had a couple tell me, one time, that this had probably been seven or eight years since they've taken the first course that I taught. And they said, "We keep that workbook with us all the time, and we reference back to it."
Lindsay: Wow.
Dr. Kim: "Well, then, Didn't we talk about something in class on how to resolve stuff like this." And they go back and look at the workbook and come up with something. So it really is just to help. What I want couples to do when they finish our course is to have confidence that they can go through anything with God's help.
And there's always an answer to anything that comes up in their marriage relationship. And then it's, at that point, when those things come up, it's saying, "Okay, how do we handle this? Do we need to go back to counseling? Do we use this tool that we learned? What are we doing wrong? How do we handle?" And it gives you more ability to deal with the things that come up in marriage.
Lindsay: That's so good. What a good idea to go to premarital counseling after marriage.
Dr. Kim: Yes, first time that happened, I thought, "Of course you can, oh yes."
Lindsay: Yes, because it's-
Dr. Kim: And they really added a few things to the class.
Lindsay: Wow. Yes, I bet they could, they had a great perspective.
Dr. Kim: They said, "If you guys are thinking that that won't happen to you, what he just said. Well, it happened to us and we're not weird." So there's some kind of affirmation and credibility with them in the class.
Lindsay: Absolutely, and nobody thinks twice if you say you're in pre-marriage counseling. If you're in marriage counseling, people still, I've had this, "What's wrong with you?" But pre-marriage counseling, nobody thinks that, and nobody should think that anyway. But I'm just saying it does happen.
Dr. Kim: No, I agree. But, yes, they don't go, "Oh, I'll pray for you." When you say you're in premarital counseling. They're going, "Great."
Lindsay: Yes, I know. We had somebody recently who gave us a little side-eye for being in marital counseling as a pastor and pastor's wife. We're like, "No, it's actually a healthy thing, we're not broken."
Dr. Kim: Absolutely. No, and actually I've got some pastors and their wives that come in on maybe every six months or some kind of a regular basis. And usually when they come in it's like, "Well, things have been pretty good." And I'll say, "Great." And then we'll start talking and we'll find something to work on.
And, so, it's just making your marriage better. And I think a lot of times we do think of counseling as going when our marriage is breaking or broken. But you can also come in to take your marriage to another level. Or to maybe uncover something that you, probably, need to deal with while it's small. Before it does fester and grow into something else.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: If you want to go to premarital or marital counseling and somebody's giving you a hard time about it. They don't need to be your friend anymore.
Lindsay: When people do, I take that with a big old grain of salt. "Are you not a learner? Do you not think you could get better?"
Dr. Kim: Seriously, yes, it's like, "No."
Lindsay: So, yes, we've got to continue to let that stigma die because we can all learn and grow. So I love that we're able to do that here.
Dr. Kim: Absolutely, and I've said this many times, but I don't think you can learn everything about your spouse in a lifetime. I think there's always room to grow because you go through different seasons.
I mean, the way we needed to grow when we had little kids, and as they got bigger, and as empty nesters. So all those different seasons are opportunities for us to continue to grow. And to learn how we deal with our marriage and make it healthy in this season and, so, you just don't.
I think we'd all think we get it and we coast and you just can't. Because there's changes and it's fun to learn the new things and to grow, it really is.
Our marriage is so much richer because of the things we've been through in the season we've been through, and how we've grown through that together. Some of it's been more painful than others, but on the other side of it, it's been pretty good.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, and it's so wonderful for the marriage when you are able to grow through things together.
Dr. Kim: Mm-hmm, yes, absolutely.
Lindsay: It's a good place to be. So if we have an engaged or seriously dating couple listening today. And they're hearing this and realizing they're not really doing a great job preparing for marriage, what are their next steps? What can they do?
Dr. Kim: Well, first I think just that acknowledgement. "Okay, we've got a red flag, we've got some things here. We've heard some things and looks like we're not really doing what we probably need to do to prepare for marriage." And then I think just sit down together, talk openly and honestly with each other, and just talk through things. Or talk about, "What do we need to do?"
"This is an issue, do we need to do counseling?"
"We didn't do premarital counseling, let's do that." Just begin to take a step. Let this motivate you to just take a step. Because I think you don't have the confidence that I see couples that go through premarital counseling have, when they get on their wedding day.
Because I've had stories of couples that didn't do premarital counseling, that on their wedding day, I've heard more than one person say, "I want to run. I just realized as I stood at the head of that aisle or at the foot of that aisle that we weren't prepared for marriage. What in the world was I doing?"
Lindsay: Wow.
Dr. Kim: So that wedding day is a day you want to be able to celebrate and have confidence, "This is the person that God has for me. This is the person I want to marry. And we don't know at all, but we're prepared for this step, and we'll keep preparing for every step that we take throughout our marriage." That's what makes a difference. And, so, whatever you see, as you've heard us talk today, Lindsay and I talk today, is we need to take a first step, pick that step and do it.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm, yes, that's good. This is the time.
Dr. Kim: Yes, our premarital course is available 24/7, 365, it's always there. And you can do it on your pace, they're seven sessions. I recommend doing not more than one a week because that gives you time to do the homework sessions.
Lindsay: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kim: I've got a couple now and we started their premarital counseling a year and a half before they are getting married. And I'm going to do their wedding in another year. But they have taken this and what they're doing, they're kind of spreading out this. And we've met and we've gone through some things, and things to work on, but it's really been great.
They've identified some areas to work on and we met pretty consistently for a while. And then we're going to take a break and they're going to do the class. And then we'll probably come back together before they get married just to refine things. But they have taken premarital counseling and preparing for their marriage very seriously, and really, they're pretty much the ones who initiated it. It was their idea and it's pretty cool.
Lindsay: Yes, that's really cool. Oh, that's encouraging.
Dr. Kim: It's fun. They're really fun to work with.
Lindsay: Yes, anybody who wants to learn, that's where you want to be. People who are actually taking charge.
Dr. Kim: Yes, exactly, well, I was going to say, I think if you go into premarital counseling with that idea of, "Let's learn, let's grow, let's have fun. Let's learn some things about each other." And I try to get couples to laugh a lot. We talk about things because I want it to be fun for them, but I want them to learn, and grow, and feel like, "Oh, man, this was really worth us going through this."
Lindsay: Yes, and I believe that it is.
Dr. Kim: Yes, I do too.
Lindsay: Yes, for sure, well, Dr. Kim, this has been a fun, and a little bit challenging, and encouraging conversation today. Do you have a final piece of advice?
Dr. Kim: I think it's easy, in our culture, to focus on the wrong things. I think we'll get so many distractions and most of them that the world gives us are not going to be the best things for a marriage relationship.
And, so, I think maybe, today, if you guys are engaged, or you're seriously dating someone. Just take that time to sit down and think through, "Well, what does our life look right now?"
"What does it look like between now and our wedding day? And what do we want our marriage to look like after that? "And as you look at that, "What's our next step? Is it premarital counseling? Is it counseling?" Whatever it is, then decide, together, to take that step. And I just think you'll never regret it and I think it'll be a great experience for you, and your marriage will be better for it.
Lindsay: Yes, I absolutely agree with that. That's a great place to land. So we want to thank you guys for listening today, for sharing your time with us. If you are engaged or you're considering marriage, you're seriously dating, please check out our Prep for Marriage course.
We will have that link in the show notes. And I want to make sure you know that when you subscribe to our podcast email, you will get those show notes, resources, and some helpful application questions all in one weekly email whenever our new episodes go live.
So if you're listening while you're driving, while you're doing something, your hands are full or busy. It's a great place to find all the resources in one spot, plus some fun bonus content that's really helpful. Thanks for listening, have a great day and do something awesome for your marriage today.
[00:43:11] < Outro >
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